Converting .243 brass to 6.5 Creedmoor

[Trent]

I started out on this quest a while back in this thread... http://www.65creedmoor.com/index.php?topic=356.0

I've since moved from Colorado to Georgia and have my new reloading room up and running so I wanted to get back on this. I have a boatload of new .243 brass that I bought on sale, and it's also a personal challenge to see if I can do it. Well, I am calling it a success. After conversion I measured runout on the necks and they are between 0.0005" (half a thousandth) and zero. That is much better than I was honestly expecting. I am a happy camper, and I am a big fan of Hornady dies after seeing how well they maintain concentricity of resized cases and loaded rounds. After fire forming the cases are maintaining zero to 0.0005" runout.

The first issue I had in my previous attempts was the wall of the case collapsing when trying to resize in one step using the Hornady 6.5CM full length die.


So I decided to first move the shoulder down while maintaining the .243 shape. I did this by machining off 0.125" (1/8 inch) off the bottom of a Lee full length .243win die so that I could push the case further into the die thereby moving the shoulder down to the same dimension of the 6.5 Creedmoor (1.520"). I also remove the expander ball assembly. Then the brass goes into the Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor die and it necks up the neck to 6.5mm and sets the 30 degree shoulder angle.

Steps:
1) Trim the factory .243 neck on a trimmer down to 1.940". This sets the case length on the finished case exactly at the Creedmoor length of 1.920" once all is said and done. You have to do this step or you won't be able to process the brass into the Creedmoor die as it will just smash the neck into the top of the die.

2) Chamfer and deburr the case neck opening.

3) Lube the wall of the case with Imperial Sizing Wax. I stopped lubing the neck/shoulder altogether because I was getting small wrinkles in the shoulder in the next step even with almost no lube. As the shoulder moves down the case it will get lubed from the lube applied to the wall.

4) Run the brass into the modified .243 Full-length die that is adjusted to set the shoulder to the Creedmoor dimension.

5) Run the brass into the factory Hornady full-length Creedmoor die. To me this is a step that has to be fine tuned with the rifle that is going to fire the cases. I adjust the die down little by little and resize a case until it will juuusssst allow the bolt to close with a slight drag. You want it just barely to touch the bolt face and the shoulder of the chamber. This way when you fire the cases it will set the shoulder perfectly to your chamber. This probably isn't critical since we all have no issue with firing factory brass that isn't that snug.

6) Load the brass and shoot it. 

Here is a photo of each of my steps.

[Trent]

A few final words. After seeing the concentric rounds that came out of this process I would have absolutely no problems with using my first "fire forming" shots in an actual match. Ok, maybe not a bench rest match, but just about any other type of match for sure.
 
Lastly, I won't say that this process is "worth it", but if you can't get Hornady brass, don't like Hornady brass, or you just have a boatload of .243Win brass laying around... I feel like it was worth it. Also, I gained the knowledge of the process and I had fun doing it. Also, I get the satisfaction of shooting with brass that I made. To me that is definitely worth the process.

If y'all have any comments feel free to post away. I am not easily offended. 

[giterdone]

Very good write up Trent......I have shot some very small groups using Rem. .243 brass resized to 6.5 creedmoor after cutting them back.  The thing about using .243 brass is the case necks will end up at .2925" when loaded, same as Hornady 6.5 CM brass.  I use Redding body dies a lot, they dont touch the neck but will set the shoulder back. YMMV

[Trent]

Thank you.

Yep, that is exactly what my loaded rounds are measured at with the formed .243 brass (0.292"). My lot of factory Hornady Creedmoor brass measures a little less though at 0.290". Of course, I am just using a set of calipers as I don't have a mic.

One sweet thing about the Hornady FL die is that they come with a very smooth and tapered expander "ball" and this is a tremendous help when necking up the .243 to the .264. Generous lube inside the next and it is an easy pass.

The .243 die that I modified was just an inexpensive Lee full length die. I didn't want to spend much on this process. 

[blueberry65]

Are you or any one else you know of annealing after making 243 or 308 brass into Creedmoor?  I have made some once fired 243 brass into CM but didn't know if it should or had to be annealed.

[Trent]

I'm going to anneal mine after the first firing. I could feel individual differences in the pressure it took to form each case. For the most part they were equal, but every once in a while I would have a case that would form really easily. I'm thinking that there may have been some inconsistencies in the hardness of the factory brass I used. So I'll give the cases an annealing, FL resize and then trim them to final 6.5CM length after the 1st firing. I'm thinking this will give me some pretty consistent cases.

I will say this, I won't do this again unless I find a super good deal on some Nosler or Lapua .243 brass. I think the Hornady factory CM brass is plenty good and this is too much work. 

[giterdone]

I annealed my .243 cases after forming them into 6.5 Creedmoor profile.  I used Rem brass as thats what I had on hand; they had been previously fired and I only did about 60 cases.  I narrowed them down to a uniform lot of 50 and they shoot as good as the Hornady cases.  A little over a year ago when I got my first 6.5 Creedmoor loaded ammo and/or brass were not in stock, and the only way I could shoot my new rifle was to make some cases for it from the .243 brass. My advise to others is "its too much work unless you have a lot of time on your hands".  YMMV

[Trent]

I agree.

It's fun for the first 10 cases. Then after 200 you are thinking... WTF?

[blueberry65]

I had a bunch of Federal 243 once fired that I ran through my sizer and then trimmed.  They worked perfectly and the test loads in that brass shot well.  Just running them through the sizer and trimming has not been bad on time, but if I didn't already have the extra brass it would not have been worth it to buy them when we can buy CM brass now. 

[k80skeet]

It just shows that if you are willing to go through all the work you can make 6.5 Creedmoor cases.  I have done this many times making wildcat catridges that were not available and that is the only way you could do it.  I agree with the statement it is not worth all the work it takes to make them.  It is nice that these guys have described how to do it.  If you have more time than money it can be done.  I will buy mine as I do when ever I can buy it I do and make when I can't.  Good post by Trent and geterdone.  Thanks guys for all the hard work and information.

[hrt4me]

thanks for the information and tips, which was all very helpful!

[amckillop]

Hi All

I am new to the forum after reading and following for about 18 months now. I live in Queensland Australia and I am a 6.5 CM owner. I had a custom built rifle put together for me well before they were available in standard chamberings from the likes of Savage or Ruger.

It is near on impossible to get factory ammo here and when you do in costs you two arms and both legs. As for brass I was able to get some ordered through a shop in Brisbane. Again on the basis of cost per case it was about AU$1.60 which is about US$1.80 at the moment.

Not to be beaten I recent read up on the information available on the web on using different brass to create 6.5 CM cases. I even played around with some old 308 brass to see how it would turn out. First one really good and the second not so good.

Last week I was able to attend an advanced reloading course with a world champion benchrest shooter here in Brisbane, Stuart Elliot. He has been running various reloading courses for years now and has probably forgotten more than I will ever know. So my brother and I booked our private course for the day and off we went. We were able to pick Stuart's brain for the entire day. It was amazing to say the least. More importantly I could have saved thousands on rifle set-ups and reloading gear if I had of done it earlier.....never mind.

One of the questions I posed was to reform brass, preferably Lapua into 6.5 CM. I took down my attempts and showed him. Without missing a beat Stuart pulled out a 243 case and we started forming 6.5 CM brass from unfired 243 Lapua brass. With his knowledge and available gear it took no time at all and I had perfectly formed brass. I purchased 100 243 cases on the spot and will start preparing some cases myself. Once I start I will get down how I do it on the forum for others to see or comment on.

However, I am curious has anyone out there used 308 Palma cases to form 6.5 CM brass? This is where I originally wanted to be. In essence you will have a beefed version of a 6.5 x 47 Lapua that will outperform by around 200 or so fps. I would like to know if anyone has attempted this and what results they may have had.

I look forward to adding more information once I can get myself sorted enough to start. To all thanks so much for the information provided on this site. Here in Australia the CM is little known and when you ask at a gun store about ammo you may as well be slapping them in the face.

Cheers

Andrew

[Trent]

Andrew,

Welcome to the forum!

I've been meaning to update this thread. I've since fired my converted brass and was surprised that the loads felt a little hot even though I was using a known load that is under suggested max. Once I got home I was looking at my converted .243 brass and I thought I would check to see if a "donut" had formed in the neck. I was surprised that I had to push pretty hard to get a bullet to slide into the neck of my fired cases. Looks like my necks are a little thick which I am suspecting is the cause of the loads feeling hotter (recoil was more than usual). I am now debating whether or not it is worth the time and money to turn the necks so that my brass isn't so tight in the chamber when firing. Although, the brass chambered easily it must be a VERY close fit.

Let me know what you experience. Thanks for your post!

[memilanuk]

Trent,

Just going off what I've heard over the years... but some of the Euro brass (Lapua, Norma) tends to have a considerable difference in the thickness of the body shoulder wall as compared to the neck wall.  When people used to neck up Lapua .243 Win brass to 6.5-08 / .260 Rem they would often get donuts as the thicker brass from the shoulder was now part of the base of the neck and usually required inside neck reaming.  The same thing very rarely happened when necking down from 7mm-08 or .308, but the changes in neck thickness sometimes required outside neck turning.

Going from the .243 or other cases in that family to a case with a shorter body like the Creedmoor it seems like you'd get hit by both problems.  So much of what used to be the thicker shoulder material is now part of the neck that I can't imagine that you wouldn't need to neck turn *and* ream - or use a neck turner like the K&M which you can get with a carbide reamer machined right into the end of the pilot and do both at once.

Personally I'm kind of leaning towards the idea of forming from Norma 6XC... but in any event I would expect to have to 'fix' something on the necks one way or the other.

[Trent]

memilanuk, you are right on. I'm not sure if you could techinically call this a "donut" since almost all of the .243 neck is cut away prior to forming the Creedmoor. The new neck after the Creedmoor is formed is almost all shoulder from the .243win.

I have converted two brands of 243win brass (Winchester and Hornady). I didn't notice the increase in recoil when firing the Winchester brass, but I did with the Hornady. Mind you, it isn't kicking like an '06 or anything and the primers look normal. I just measured some of my loaded rounds. Factory Hornady Creedmoor brass loaded with 120MKs caliper out at 0.290" to 0.2905". The Hornady brass is about 0.293" to 0.294" and the Win brass is 0.293". So it looks like I can stand to shave off 0.003".

Now, I have 250 rounds of converted .243 brass which equates to around $160 worth of brass if I were to replace it with factory Creedmoor brass. However, I got the .243 brass for next to nothing. I don't own a neck turner so I need to ask myself if I want to invest another $50 to $80 for a K&M neck turner. I usually try not to factor in the price of tools into projects cause come on... tools are forever. Or was that diamonds?