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Topic: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking.. (Read 302 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #15
No worries jerry.. like i said in my first post proceed at your own risk.. thats what it took to clean all that crap out of mine.. and i will stand by my method as well..
Grant

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #16
Dave, I've heard that same thing for years, but no one has put
up any proof one way or the other that reversing the direction
in the barrel with a nylon or copper brush will damage a stainless barrel.
Not that it couldn't.
I do think you need to be very careful of the rod dropping down
as you exist and re-enter the barrel, if you don't reverse in the barrel.

Damaging the crown is one of the ways to do harm to your groups.

First I'm hopeful this thread won't deteriorate into a barrel cleaning peeing contest as most usually do 😂 but i have accidently when aggresively brushing a barrel reversed the brush in a bore and the feeling of the reversal had me convinced no good was being done there.
I couldn't agree more about dropping the rod and think that is what a bore guide and a properly fitting rod are for and I know of no proof either way on reversing the brush but the LAST place I think it should be reversed is at the crown in the last place a bullet has contact with the rifling.

I use the JB paste as well regularly on a patch smeared with it wrapped around a jag and also on a patch wrapped brush smeared with it as well. Its my opinion the patch keeps the paste on the lands and in the grooves either way. I would think after a few strokes on a brush alone most of the paste would be forced down in amongst the bristles making little contact with the bore.

These are my opinions based on my experiences and everyone is free to do their own thing. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I do feel all schools of thought should be represented.
Dave

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #17
Dave you are right.. a warm or even hot barrel does clean easier.. but i will say this again their is some of that carbon that gets burnt in there that solvents just wont remove.. it doesnt matter what kind you use.. or when you use it ..

And you are right as well,  I use a 50/50 mix of Kroil & Butches then follow that with JB on a patch wrapped jag or brush then a final (2-4) patches of straight Kroil. Again my thoughts being the warmth of the barrel requires a less aggressive cleaning, not claiming solvents alone will do it.
Dave

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #18
All i can say is take one of your old barrels that you consider is junk and give my way a honest try.. it worked for me and appears to have worked for bob as well ..but the jury is still out on his till he gets a chance to shoot his..
Grant

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #19
I should add this to this thread.. im not advocating doing this to a fresh barrel.. or even one that has 4 or 500 rounds down it.. and if you know for sure that you have stayed on top of keeping the carbon out then its not necessary at all.. but if you have a barrel thats all carboned up and looks to be on its last leg then go to town on it.. its work to get that stuff out of there but it will come out and it just might put off screwing a new pipe on one for several 100 more rounds..
Grant

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #20
Too bad the first 6- 12" of the inside of the barrel can't be a replaceable sleeve. Just make that part of the barrel thicker.

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #21
All i can say is take one of your old barrels that you consider is junk and give my way a honest try.. it worked for me and appears to have worked for bob as well ..but the jury is still out on his till he gets a chance to shoot his..

I'm not sure I have any barrels I consider junk. I've got a brass fire form BRA barrel with several thousand rounds that I'm sure is worn out but as long as the neck throat area is clean and carbon ring free so it's not over pressuring that's good enough.

I think you're misunderstanding my position here Grant. I'm certainly not arguing or doubting your or Bob's results. I consider you both knowledgeable and trustworthy.
I'm saying regular cleaning with JB on a patch on a favorable condition (warm barrel) and a person may not wind up in a nothing to lose position that requires 300 strokes, 200 which are reversing a bronze brush laden with abrasives in the bore.

Nowhere did I say you're wrong or your method doesn't get a barrel clean.
Dave

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #22
My take away from my experience and this thread is that I got a barrel into a state where it was needing to be replaced.  What Grant proposed was a way to pull that back from the brink and get more useful life out of it.  I am now going to be more aware of how the barrel is degrading and how to keep from requiring such drastic actions.  So before it gets this bad, would using a nylon brush or a wrapped brush with JB/Kroill be able to prevent reaching this point.  I know I too have read that reversing a brass brush in the barrel is bad....but I have always been a little suspect of this....brass versus SS seems like not a bad thing.
Bob
If everything seems under control......you're just not going fast enough

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #23
This is a last resort effort. You don't do this after 100 rounds.
This has been mentioned here.
If you are about to throw away a barrel, then you have very little to lose.
Wish I had a least tried this on a couple barrels I thought were toast
before I trashed them. Next one, I'll give it a try.
Thanks G

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #24
My take away from my experience and this thread is that I got a barrel into a state where it was needing to be replaced.  What Grant proposed was a way to pull that back from the brink and get more useful life out of it.  I am now going to be more aware of how the barrel is degrading and how to keep from requiring such drastic actions.  So before it gets this bad, would using a nylon brush or a wrapped brush with JB/Kroill be able to prevent reaching this point.  I know I too have read that reversing a brass brush in the barrel is bad....but I have always been a little suspect of this....brass versus SS seems like not a bad thing.

I understand the position that required the method I'm not knocking to correct it. I'm suggesting changes in frequency, techniques and  conditions in regular cleaning may prevent getting to the point of needing to go to this extreme.
Dave

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #25
Dave's correct. Proper periodic cleanings.
In some calibers and usage, like running them with a hot load or a overbore caliber,
or some powders, it's harder to avoid.
That's what we need to take away from this, check your bore and
keep on top of it.

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #26
Dave's correct. Proper periodic cleanings.
In some calibers and usage, like running them with a hot load or a overbore caliber,
or some powders, it's harder to avoid.
That's what we need to take away from this, check your bore and
keep on top of it.

I couldnt agree more.. i have been kind of obsessed with trying to keep the hard carbon out here the last several months.. I've used all the so called best solvents.. I've got into cleaning them when the barrel is still hot.. (this helps) but even at that the carbon still builds up in there and next thing you know the first couple inches of the bore looks like alligator hide.. and as far as i knew that was just part of the game.. thats why they make new pipes right.. well after doing what i did the new pipe will be held off for a while and my cleaning process will change.. i will now be using jb bore paste every couple hundred rounds to remove that stuff.. and now that i have it out of there i will probably start using a per caliber brush.. but the per caliber brush wasnt cutting it to start with.. as far as reversing the brush i dont see how it can hurt the ss barrel.. them bristles flex and roll over when reversed.. just my thinking..
Grant

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #27
Got my 6.5x284 out this morning.. after shooting it some the other day after that aggressive cleaning i wanted to see how it looked after 40 rounds the other day.. looked pretty good but i could still see a couple streaks of carbon in the groves so i went at it again with the jb.. till there was zero carbon left.. i then measured the throat growth. With this barrel close to a 1000 rounds down it i was suprised to find only .032 growth.. not good but not bad for the round count.. i then took it out and shot it 10 times at a 100 yards.. my first shot dead centered one of the little orange dots.. but it took all 10 to settle down.. i then put 3 on a 2 inch plate at 250.. just under a half inch.. i then put 2 in a gophers head at 300.. also under a half inch.. moved to 430 and went 5 for 5 on a 2 inch plate.. getting aggressive with getting carbon out doesnt seem to hurt them too bad.. 😁
Grant

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #28
Grant, I took my 6.5-284 out and checked this yesterday.  It has around 400 rounds down the barrel and it didn't look too bad.   I did take a little extra time and cleaned it up some....not completely to bare metal.  I have a local 1000 yard match on Monday and want to shot it in the Heavy Gun relay, so I didn't want it too clean.  I also checked the 6.5 CM that I plan to shoot in the Light Gun relay and it looked pretty good so I left it alone.  I'll let you know how it goes.

For the record, I use RL-26 in the 6.5-284 and RL-16 in the CM.
Bob
If everything seems under control......you're just not going fast enough

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #29
Good stuff.  Thanks to Grant and all others that contributed.  Can't absorb all these nuggets so I will archive/print.  Just a hunter so the rounds count is pretty low on all my sticks.  But, if I have one that opens up out of standard after my normal cleaning routine, will give a modified version of the drill a go.
If you have the shot, take it.