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Topic: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking.. (Read 301 times) previous topic - next topic

fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

a member asked if i would give the details on how to remove the hard carbon and burnt in carbon in a barrel... so here it goes...to start with i make no claims that doing this will hurt or help your barrels...i know for me i have cleaned that burnt in carbon that solvents wont touch out of 4 of my rifles and their all 4 shooting great afterwards... proceed at your own risk..

 to start with about a month and a half ago i was shooting my 6.5x284... this barrel has about a 1000 rounds down it now and its still shooting pretty good... 1/2 moa groups.. i had cleaned the gun pretty good and looked in it with my bore scope and i could still see the burnt in carbon in it and the lands and first couple inches of the bore was fire cracked bad... but it wasnt black and didnt look like carbon really... i thought i would get real aggressive with jb bore paste and kroil.. first i ran 3 soaked patches of kroil down the bore and let it set for 15 minutes... then i took a 7mm bronze brush and packed it full of jb bore paste.. then i went to running the brush back and forth through the full length of the barrel..  heres where your going to think im crazy..lol but i did this at least a 100 strokes ... all kinds of black stuff came out... i then moped the bore out with patches soaked in kroil till they came out clean... looked it over with the scope and it looked alot better but i could still see carbon down in the groves on the first half of the barrel so i let it soak another 15 minutes..
loaded the brush back up with jb and went to work on the first half of the barrel... another 100 strokes back and forth... patched it out and looked again... this time i could see some of that fire cracking at the lands and the first couple inches of the bore was gone... and most of the black carbon was gone in the groves except the firs 6 inches of the bore...
 soaked it again and loaded the brush back up with jb and gave the first 6 inches of the bore another 100 strokes.. mopped it out and looked and could barely see any fire cracking... i gave it another 50 strokes in the first 6 inches and mopped it out agai and couldnt believe what i was seeing... the fire cracking was gone... clean shiny barrel..you could tell the very start of the lands were melted away a little..  i had northland shooter supply on speed dial because i was pretty sure i had just ruined my barrel.. but i loaded the mag with 10 rounds and the first 4 or 5 was all over the place...lol.. im talking bad... i thought yep i junked it... but sent the other 5 down it and with each shot it was getting closer and closer to my zero point... loaded 10 more and by shot 15 it was hitting back where it should have been... i then shot a 3 shot group at a hundred yards and they were all in a ragged hole... so i went for 430 yards.. and there i shot a 3/4 inch group... i was all smiles... now i dont know what the long term effects of this type of cleaning will do but i do know for a 6.5x284 with a 1000 rounds down it that has been hammerd on its whole life it should be toast and appeared to be when i started...   but now i think theirs alot of life left in this barrel... i was so pleased and shocked i went to work on a creedmoor barrel and had the same results... so i took two more down to bare metal and their all shooting like the should... if you want to get that burnt in hard carbon out give this a try... if you think its unneccessary then dont bother... makes me no difference... just sharing my experience...
Grant

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #1
i should have added i dont have any pic's to back this up but i shared this info with autoxforfun and he did it and has pics in this thread if you want to see.. https://www.65creedmoor.com/index.php?topic=12287.0
Grant

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #2
To do this procedure, consider wrapping the bronze brush with one layer of patch material saturated with JB. The patch holds the JB in place preventing it from migrating into the brush. The cloth over the brush also allows you to reverse direction more easily when you start short stroking the first 4-8” of the barrel. Occasionally pull the brush and recoat with JB. If the patch cloth is getting worn out put a new one on. Holding the JB out against the metal of the bore will allow you to use a whole lot less strokes.

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #3
Thanks for taking the time to share.  Looks like you have found the fountain of youth, or at least plastic surgery , for rifle barrels!  Will try this on the used 25-06. 

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #4
When i first started using jb i also wrapped a patch around the brush but getting the patch out of the brush was a pain in the arse.. lol.. these last 4 barrels i ditched the patch and seemed to work better and be more effective.. ymmv
Grant


Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #6
Yes it is gregg..
Grant

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #7
I use Kroill in the spray can form....it seems easier for me to apply.
Bob
If everything seems under control......you're just not going fast enough

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #8
@gman47564

Thanks for posting up your experience, I'm curious about working the forward portions of the barrel only on the 2nd and 3rd treatments. The way I've always understood and followed is that you should never reverse direction with a bore brush in the barrel especially a bronze brush and with that being said I'd think an oversized 7mm in a 6.5 barrel would be worse yet.

Am I misunderstanding something here? You and I are good enough friends to know I'm not trying to debate you here. Serious question are you reversing the brush in the rifling or am i reading this wrong. I do short stroke the neck throat area being extremely careful not to get into the rifling but have never reversed the brush in the actual rifled bore.

Recently I've started to doubt these "rules" just on the idea that a bore brush couldn't possibly compare to what goes on inside the barrel when a bullet goes from 0 to 2900+ fps 26 inches because of a high pressure explosion with a stream of superheated gas and carbon particles pushing it along.
Dave

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #9
Dave that first 100 strokes through the full length of the barrel wears quiet a bit on the brush.. but to answer your question yes i have been reversing the brush in the bore.. i can see no ill effects of it with my bore scope..
Grant

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #10
Dave try what i have described on a old barrel that you have pulled off.. bet you will be surprised how it looks when your done
Grant

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #11
Dave, I've heard that same thing for years, but no one has put
up any proof one way or the other that reversing the direction
in the barrel with a nylon or copper brush will damage a stainless barrel.
Not that it couldn't.
I do think you need to be very careful of the rod dropping down
as you exist and re-enter the barrel, if you don't reverse in the barrel.

Damaging the crown is one of the ways to do harm to your groups.

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #12
I thought i was reading it correctly and felt like I was asking a stupid question but had to ask. In the other thread that prompted this thread I posted about my preference to cleaning a warm or hot barrel and my belief it's easier to clean them and requires less effort. As bad as I'd like to load my guns up and go home they get cleaned right there on the bench warm, regardless of whether I'm at my personal range or  at a match.
This is on my bench guns of course my plain old guns live under a looser set of rules you might say.
Dave

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #13
To do this procedure, consider wrapping the bronze brush with one layer of patch material saturated with JB. The patch holds the JB in place preventing it from migrating into the brush. The cloth over the brush also allows you to reverse direction more easily when you start short stroking the first 4-8” of the barrel. Occasionally pull the brush and recoat with JB. If the patch cloth is getting worn out put a new one on. Holding the JB out against the metal of the bore will allow you to use a whole lot less strokes.

I will stand by this statement. I think it’s much safer and more effective to actually clean with JB rather than bronze. I would not put 300 strokes of a bronze brass down any of my barrels. When I’ve done this procedure for my barrels no more than 50 strokes max has been required.
Not trying to argue Grant. Just stating my concerns and prior findings.

Re: fire cracking of the steel or just hard carbon cracking..

Reply #14
Dave you are right.. a warm or even hot barrel does clean easier.. but i will say this again their is some of that carbon that gets burnt in there that solvents just wont remove.. it doesnt matter what kind you use.. or when you use it ..
Grant