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Topic: A little demonstration.. dont kid yourself..  (Read 411 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: A little demonstration.. dont kid yourself..

Reply #15
Grant, it sounds like you need to get your barrels back to the same level of cleanliness they were when you tuned your loads in order keep them shooting bug holes. Looking over a lot of other posts about cleaning, it seems that getting barrels really clean is quite a bit more work than simply getting them clean, which stands to reason. I wonder if a person waited for a barrel to get dirty, then tuned a load, if that would make staying in the accuracy pocket easier? You wouldn't have to clean near as meticulously to get back to the tune spot.


 
Chris

Re: A little demonstration.. dont kid yourself..

Reply #16
Chris i think thats exactly right.. whatever the state of the barrel is in during your final tune is where its going to shoot its best.. mine just happened to be clean.. least thats my opinion..
Grant

 

Re: A little demonstration.. dont kid yourself..

Reply #17
I'm going to give that a try with my Sig SSG 3000 rifle to which I installed a Benchmark 6.5 Creedmoor barrel. I broke it in with 20 rounds, cleaned it up and set it aside to work on other stuff. Think maybe I'll just shoot it a bit to get used to it, and for fun. Then work up a load without cleaning it. That's what I love about shooting, so easy to come up with new projects :)
Chris

Re: A little demonstration.. dont kid yourself..

Reply #18
Grant, it sounds like you need to get your barrels back to the same level of cleanliness they were when you tuned your loads in order keep them shooting bug holes. Looking over a lot of other posts about cleaning, it seems that getting barrels really clean is quite a bit more work than simply getting them clean, which stands to reason. I wonder if a person waited for a barrel to get dirty, then tuned a load, if that would make staying in the accuracy pocket easier? You wouldn't have to clean near as meticulously to get back to the tune spot.

 
That's pretty much what I do fine tune my load at about 250 rounds. Then my barrel doesn't get copper cleaned until 1000 or so rounds. At this point I'll give it a really good clean stripping copper and carbon.
 I wouldn't recommend this if you want to maintain premium accuracy, my groups will open up to half inch or a little bit bigger. This method keeps me at an acceptable accuracy range from start to finish of a match ( PRS not bench rest). I can go away for the weekend and not worry weather or not my rifle is going to change in the course 200 plus rounds.

Re: A little demonstration.. dont kid yourself..

Reply #19
OMG :o .. i got a browning abolt 3 in 6.5 creedmoor.. one of my first creedmoors and it shot pretty good with my hand loads and i killed a couple deers with it and a few other critters.. and shot this gun quiet a bit.. till it got to where it just didnt shoot very good.. inch groups at best.. at the time i had cleaned it to the best of my knowledge.. clean patches would come.. no bore scope at the time and pretty much gave up on the gun and tucked it in the back of the safe.. well after learning ALOT more about cleaning a barrel i pulled it out today.. and went to work on it.. and i should be embarrassed about the shape it was in.. bad bad.. but after a couple hours of working on it i have it clean.. and with the bore scope the bore looks very good.. i dont know if it will shoot any better as its been raining here all day but i have to believe it will.. heres a pic of the rag i used to just wipe my cleaning rod off with a few times.. alot of black crap came out of that barrel.. and i mean alot.. lol
Grant

Re: A little demonstration.. dont kid yourself..

Reply #20
Grant's thread and Dave's prior thread on fouling, gives us a lot to consider.  I thank you both for starting the discussion.

This feeds into some observations I've had when shooting NBRSA competition.  In looking over the results, there was a trend very pronounced that the groups shot early in the match were better than those shot later in the match....for most competitors.  There were a few exceptions but this was a pretty consistent trend.  I definitely noticed it in my groups.  I asked about it among my fellow shooters but none had a good answer.  I was chalking it up to a hot barrel...which may be still be part of the reason.  But this whole fouling discussion could definitely be a component as well.  By the time we're thru, we will have put close to a 100 rounds down the barrel so enough to foul the barrel significantly from starting with one that was clean.

I went to the range yesterday morning to verify a load for an upcoming match.  I shot a total of 35 rounds, with the first 10 to warm the barrel.  It was interesting to see how the next 10 shot nice and tight and then each of the next 3 5-shot groups started to open up.  I didn't have the crono with me but it would have been interesting to see what the MV was doing.

So the question is how clean is good and when is it too clean?  
Bob
If everything seems under control......you're just not going fast enough

Re: A little demonstration.. dont kid yourself..

Reply #21
Bob i have to believe if you tune with a hand full of foulers on a clean bore then your first strings are going to shoot the best.. and after you get x amount of rounds down the bore the accuracy starts to deteriorate.. i also believe if you tune with a well fouled bore then from a clean bore start shooting your groups arent going to be as good as they will after you get x amount of rounds down the barrel .. then it will come back in tune for x amount of rounds as the barrel gets closer to the state it was tuned in.. i may be way off base but it makes sense in my pee brain..
Grant

Re: A little demonstration.. dont kid yourself..

Reply #22
Bob i have to believe if you tune with a hand full of foulers on a clean bore then your first strings are going to shoot the best.. and after you get x amount of rounds down the bore the accuracy starts to deteriorate.. i also believe if you tune with a well fouled bore then from a clean bore start shooting your groups arent going to be as good as they will after you get x amount of rounds down the barrel .. then it will come back in tune for x amount of rounds as the barrel gets closer to the state it was tuned in.. i may be way off base but it makes sense in my pee brain..
 
 Grant, I agree with your thinking.  Any idea on how big the window is for when it is shooting good.  Seems like it goes off pretty quick from a clean barrel....wonder how many round you get when it is fouled.  I will need a window of about 50 rounds during a heavy gun competition.  For the light gun, I may get away with starting with a clean barrel.
Bob
If everything seems under control......you're just not going fast enough

Re: A little demonstration.. dont kid yourself..

Reply #23
That i cant answer bob.. lol.. if i was competing and knew i was going to shoot a hundred rounds in a match i think i would try to get my gun shooting as good as i could with around 50 rounds on it.. then clean it good before the match.. foul it with 10 or so shots at the match and hope for the best.. you would think there would be a window on both sides of where your tune was that would carry you through a match..
Grant

Re: A little demonstration.. dont kid yourself..

Reply #24
When I clean a barrel I go after both the Carbon and the Copper fouling.  I wonder which has the biggest effect on this behavior.  I may try just cleaning out the carbon and not go after the copper the next time and then run the same experiment.  Neither can be let to get bad so maybe every other cleaning for the copper.
Bob
If everything seems under control......you're just not going fast enough