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Topic: Resizing: shoulder dimension. (Read 539 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Resizing: shoulder dimension.

Reply #30
DDR: Yes my question concerns the shoulder OD. My Redding body die resizes the shoulder -.0035". Shoulder bump is .001-.0015" so I am thinking that shouldn't too much of a factor in my head separations. Shooting pretty mild loads in a RAP in a Magpul American Hunter stock and have had no issues with primer pockets or necks so was wondering if working the shoulder OD .0035" every firing may be too much. I do anneal every reload. I realize that the load count is getting up there for Hornady factory ammo brass but am curious as to what may be causing the separations. The OD just above the web grows .001" each firing which seems reasonable. Thanks to everyone and I am fire forming new brass whenever the gate to range isn't frozen shut up here in Alberta.

Bruce




Re: Resizing: shoulder dimension.

Reply #31
My Savage shows pressure at 41.5g of H4350 with 143ELDx. So it can be hot.

Re: Resizing: shoulder dimension.

Reply #32
DDR: Yes my question concerns the shoulder OD. My Redding body die resizes the shoulder -.0035". Shoulder bump is .001-.0015" so I am thinking that shouldn't too much of a factor in my head separations. Shooting pretty mild loads in a RAP in a Magpul American Hunter stock and have had no issues with primer pockets or necks so was wondering if working the shoulder OD .0035" every firing may be too much. I do anneal every reload. I realize that the load count is getting up there for Hornady factory ammo brass but am curious as to what may be causing the separations. The OD just above the web grows .001" each firing which seems reasonable. Thanks to everyone and I am fire forming new brass whenever the gate to range isn't frozen shut up here in Alberta.

Bruce

A lot of factory ammo seems to loaded on the stout side. I would bet this is where your case head seperation is coming from. When I was shooting factory Hornady ammo (6.5 Creedmoor Match w/140 Amaxs) I had to use CCI primers versus Win. because they were a little bigger in diameter. The win primers were plenty loose in a 1x factory ammo case. Even using the CCIs I was culling cases every cycle for loose primer pockets. There was a lot of talk about tight Savage chambers and barrels at that time and could well have been a factor but once I got away from 1x cases from factory ammo the problem went away.
A warm factory round with the case sized to Sammi spec is going to do a lot of growing in a chamber on first firing. I bet it started there.
Dave

Re: Resizing: shoulder dimension.

Reply #33
My Savage shows pressure at 41.5g of H4350 with 143ELDx. So it can be hot.

Yes it can and I didn't mean to infer it could not. Each gun should be worked up safely with no regard for what another gun can do.
Dave

Re: Resizing: shoulder dimension.

Reply #34
Agreeing with @HufD63, the fact that it started out as Hornady factory ammo brass may be a big factor in the case life.  In my experience warmer or "hot" loads in new (virgin) brass will often loosen primer pockets on the first firing.  The whole case is the softest it will ever be and case stretch will also be enhanced especially since new brass is smaller.

My experience with Hornady brass has been "reloading" brass only.  It would be interesting to hear from others who have reloaded "factory ammo" and what their case life has been?  Have any others had a case separation issue not related to oversizing?
11X Grandfather
Part time Savagesmith

Re: Resizing: shoulder dimension.

Reply #35
I agree 100% on the factory ammo being loaded to hot out of the box! my first trip to the range using factory Hornady 147ELDM  I noticed on several cases excessive pressure signs, after I got home to further inspect the brass I opened the box they were in and a primer fell out of the primer pocket! as soon as I opened the box without touching the case, I shot 15 of the 20, I will probably use the rest of them for dimensional use only.

Re: Resizing: shoulder dimension.

Reply #36
I've had head separation running Hornady brass but one of my little helpers lost my shell plate and I grabbed a different one without thinking and after sticking a brass in the chamber of my rifle without a base to remove it. I started doing a little investigating, with the new shell base my shoulder bump was .015" not my normal .003"

Is the OP using a digital or analog caliper? I've seen many folks get a little confused on the decimal place on analog ones.

 

Re: Resizing: shoulder dimension.

Reply #37
Huff can you post a photo of your comp/dial/holding fixture.  Or list the components so I could check further into your method?
I'm using a standard set of calipers and Whidden comparator and my sizer die is set to bump shoulders .002" .   Your system seems better. TIA, lg

Re: Resizing: shoulder dimension.

Reply #38
Huff can you post a photo of your comp/dial/holding fixture.  Or list the components so I could check further into your method?
I'm using a standard set of calipers and Whidden comparator and my sizer die is set to bump shoulders .002" .   Your system seems better. TIA, lg

I'm away from all my gear for a couple days so I can't but I'm not sure what you're asking to see here. If it's in regard to measuring shoulder diameter there was / is no comparator and even though several people, myself included experimented with it and appeared to get repeatable results I'm not convinced they are accurate. More importantly there is no way to adjust the die to change the datum there. It would require a new die cut from a reamer with different dimensions. So $200+ and several month wait for a custom reamer to cut a one off die that will likely cost several hundred dollars itself doesn't interest me.

As far as comparators to measure bullet ogives I'm using Sinclair inserts because they are measuring a datum much closer to the actual datum on the bullet where the lands contact it.
Comparators for shoulder bump are mostly Sinclair as well and I use one of the 40* models, the bigger of the two for my two AI cartridges and have a 30* model as well. On these I feel they get a better measurement than an insert with a sharp edge.

If that wasn't what you were asking please elaborate.
Dave

Re: Resizing: shoulder dimension.

Reply #39
Huff, I misunderstood -  I think.   My 'vision' was a comparator we use to check shoulder bumps and using a dial guage and some sort of linkage connecting the two.  This 'set-up', as I understood the thread, would give a more accurate reading than using calipers and its 'feel'. 

I remember posting to you asking for more info on this.  In trying to find the thread where I made the request, I came across this one and read the whole thread, post to post.  And realized the gang was talking about the case body to shoulder area and measuring that.  So, no need to further elaborate.   Thank you.  :)  lg

Re: Resizing: shoulder dimension.

Reply #40
DDR: Yes my question concerns the shoulder OD. My Redding body die resizes the shoulder -.0035". Shoulder bump is .001-.0015" so I am thinking that shouldn't too much of a factor in my head separations. Shooting pretty mild loads in a RAP in a Magpul American Hunter stock and have had no issues with primer pockets or necks so was wondering if working the shoulder OD .0035" every firing may be too much. I do anneal every reload. I realize that the load count is getting up there for Hornady factory ammo brass but am curious as to what may be causing the separations. The OD just above the web grows .001" each firing which seems reasonable. Thanks to everyone and I am fire forming new brass whenever the gate to range isn't frozen shut up here in Alberta.

Bruce

I would agree with fellas above on hot factory ammo.  Also, factory rifles with factory chambers are usually gonna be a bit loose.  that would help feed a variety of factory ammo.  it's possible that your chamber is on the loose (But likely in spec, at least Ruger's spec) side around the case head area. 



Re: Resizing: shoulder dimension.

Reply #41
@ Huff-  By coincidence and accident, surfing the net, I came across what I thought you were talking about.  Redding actually makes the whole thing.   Redding Reloading Instant Indicator Case Comparator with Dial, 6.5mm Creedmoor.   Just an FYI & FWIW thing.  lg