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Topic: Ammunition question/problem. (Read 339 times) previous topic - next topic

Ammunition question/problem.

Hey guys. I'm new to the forum, so be easy on me. I just started hunting with a recently-built 6.5 Creedmoor and have been shooting Hornady Precision Hunter 143 gr. ELD-X ammo. This evening, I shot a doe at about 200 yards. I hit it almost dead center of the shoulder toward the top. It SHOULD have been a lung shot with the shot placement. It ran, dragging its front leg (broke the shoulder). We got the dogs out on it and never found it, leading me to believe that it never stopped running. I can't stand wasting a deer.

I was talking to a friend of mine and he told me he things that the round hit the shoulder, broke it, but didn't go any further. He told me that I need to throw the "ballistic tips" out and get a led tip round. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

I've shot two does this season at 100 yards in the shoulder and they fell instantly dead. I'm just trying to figure out why the deviation at 200 yards.

I'm used to shooting a larger caliber, so a shoulder shot is usually a done deal.

Re: Ammunition question/problem.

Reply #1
Welcome to the forum JD

I've been hunting with the 143 ELD x since it came out with a 6.5-284 and had very good success and 0 lost animals. Everything from 100 yard neck shots to a 430 yard one shot kills. I'm happy with them.

I occasionally hear reports like yours and don't really have an answer for you. Obviously that round did not do it's job but without a recovered animal to look at the wound it's hard to say if it was a bullet failure or bad shot placement. Was the animal 100% broadside or is there a chance it was slightly quartering away. If the animal was slightly quartering, slightly uphill or downhill, did the animal take a step one way or the other etc?

I've always got pass throughs with the ELDX on deer and antelope and can't imagine the ELDX is not heavy enough to pull off a shoulder shot. I've done several with very good results. Anything that didn't drop in its tracks was dead within 40 or 50 yards. I'll keep shooting them until I have a bad experience I guess.

I don't know and I wasn't there obviously but sometimes even at a close range like 200 yards my bullets don't always hit exactly where or follow the path I think they are going to. Most of the stories I've heard like yours the shooter usually switches to a bonded or lead tip bullet like your friend suggested and that's fine because there's nothing wrong with making a change and being more confident.
Dave

Re: Ammunition question/problem.

Reply #2
JD, every hunter hates to have that happen to them, sleepless night
and constant second guessing themself.
If it broke the leg or shoulder than it did part of it's job.
Did you see much blood?
How good are these dogs?
Sometimes a wounded deer will surprise you on how far it can travel
100, 200 yds.  A person can cover that distance in 20 sec, a deer could
do it in half that. How much cover is in that area?

Re: Ammunition question/problem.

Reply #3
I shot 3 deer this past season with the 200 gr ELD-x 300 win mag. All three behind one shoulder and through the opposite with a large exit.

I know it’s not a 6.5, but I had no problems.

Re: Ammunition question/problem.

Reply #4
HufD63,
I don't want to change rounds. I do love the one I'm shooting. The doe was standing broadside when I shot. She ran around a bit before heading into the brush, so i got a good look at her wound. It should have fallen instantly, or at least would have had I shot it with my .270 I think. I believe I am going to keep the round and start aiming for only lung shots to remedy this.

Re: Ammunition question/problem.

Reply #5
Ranger,
Thanks for your response! There was not much blood. We actually never found any on the ground. I got a good look at her wound before she ran into the brush, and she was not bleeding much. This led me to believe that no organs were struck by the round. The field I was hunting is about 300 acres. She was 200 yards from me and ran into about two acres of 4 year old brush at the same distance after running west about 100 yards. It seems as though she ran out the other side and into some thicker brush and then eventually the woods. The dogs are experienced enough. They've found deer for me this year already. They picked up several scents, but never lit on any of them.

Re: Ammunition question/problem.

Reply #6
Michiman,
I think that a .300 mag is going to have a little more "oomph" than a 6.5 Creedmoor. I will say, I believe that shot placement is an error for me here. I've been hitting them in the very center of the shoulder this season. I think I'm going to start aiming for a lung shot behind the shoulder. I still think that it should have penetrated the shoulder and gone through the top part of the lung, though.

Re: Ammunition question/problem.

Reply #7
Michiman,
I think that a .300 mag is going to have a little more "oomph" than a 6.5 Creedmoor. I will say, I believe that shot placement is an error for me here. I've been hitting them in the very center of the shoulder this season. I think I'm going to start aiming for a lung shot behind the shoulder. I still think that it should have penetrated the shoulder and gone through the top part of the lung, though.

Spoke with someone recently who had a very similar experience to yours with a 308. Shot looked good but the deer ran off with a broken shoulder and could not be found. Confirmed it was the hunter precision ammo after I saw this thread.

Re: Ammunition question/problem.

Reply #8
I think we all have seen the high shoulder shots on TV that deliver a ton of shock and drop the animal straight down immediately.

I'm not insinuating the 143 ELD X is not capable but the safe effective shot is going to be just behind the shoulder as JD said in my opinion. I think your logic is sound JD
Dave

Re: Ammunition question/problem.

Reply #9
coming in late in the game on this but I for one find myself fascinated with hunting bullet performance. Not a creed story, however I shoot eldx in my 257 weatherby ruger 1, shoots dimes all do just crazy accurate. I switched to this bullet after shooting a pronghorn with a similar 110 grain accubond load. Pronghorn dropped, however upon review of the wound during skinning it appears my behind the shoulder shot (high) clipped a rib and bullet immediately fragmented and sent three wounds on the opp side of the animal none large enough to penetrate. One of those hmm moments - he was graveyard dead, so being the bullet fanatic that I am I switched to Hornady.

Shot probably one of my best 8 points this year in central texas deer live weight probably 115 but old bruiser of a deer. Shot was center chest heart shot and the deer dropped like he was hit by thors hammer. So I began gathering up my things in the blind took one look back and the buck's massive antlers were perked up in the tall grass in the cut where he laid. Watching the deer for what seemed like 5/10 minutes he finally did the fatal head roll and the I could see his nose up antlers on the ground. So I excited the blind as ok he's dead for sure now, half way to the animal he stood up and stumbled off to which I knew he wasn't going far fast so I hurried over and finished the animal with my 10mm pistol.

Both fired at distances under 100 yards probably 75/80 and obviously still traveling at 32-3300 fps given the wby data. Still like the accuracy for both bullets, however i'm left with do you keep this going or look for something a little stronger? When given the opportunity to shoot our little whitetail here in central texas I do like shoulder shots - tends to anchor them with no trailing what so ever. I'm leery of that now with these two ammo selections in what is to date my favorite hunting rifle the 257.

I have a prc and given it's velocities i'm leaning more towards barns and have discussed having loads worked  up for scirocco's which I really love in other 6.5's. I'm not a loader so factory or custom ammo are my real options. Accubonds have served me well in other calibers so have the barns or partitions shooting larger game. Lots of folks rave the eldx and as I stated they are extremely accurate in this particular rifle and much more affordable than weatherby ammo. Me thinking behind the shoulder shots probably the way to go, but as described in beginning on the pronghorn I would have not thought that accubond would have come apart like that.

All in all shoot enough you will see some scratch your head moment and most likely the exception rather than the rule. It was just my kind of topic to chime in with on my own experience as I tend to be as intrigued by performance as anyone! Call me twisted - lol

Re: Ammunition question/problem.

Reply #10
Similar thing just happened around thanksgiving to me. Take it for what it is, just an individual experience but my 2 cents.

Let a young cousin shoot a 5 point with my creed, he hit it high behind the shoulder and the deer dropped instantly but was still thrashing a bit before jumping up and 3 legging its way into the woods, he was unable to get off a second shot. I thought it would lay down and bleed out so we waited a couple hours before searching, about 10 mins into the search we jumped it and it ran too far for my comfort as it was getting dark. Ended up leaving it and searching in the AM, I had him walk high and I circled low and ended up jumping it and delivering the kill shot in the neck. It was originally hit in the high shoulder with a half-dollar sized hole out the other side just below the backstrap. The bullet clearly expanded but the deer still managed to live through the night. You can still make a marginal hit behind the shoulder, people that bow hunt talk about the "void" and I never gave it much credit till now.

Re: Ammunition question/problem.

Reply #11
Hey guys. I'm new to the forum, so be easy on me. I just started hunting with a recently-built 6.5 Creedmoor and have been shooting Hornady Precision Hunter 143 gr. ELD-X ammo. This evening, I shot a doe at about 200 yards. I hit it almost dead center of the shoulder toward the top. It SHOULD have been a lung shot with the shot placement. It ran, dragging its front leg (broke the shoulder). We got the dogs out on it and never found it, leading me to believe that it never stopped running. I can't stand wasting a deer.

I was talking to a friend of mine and he told me he things that the round hit the shoulder, broke it, but didn't go any further. He told me that I need to throw the "ballistic tips" out and get a led tip round. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

I've shot two does this season at 100 yards in the shoulder and they fell instantly dead. I'm just trying to figure out why the deviation at 200 yards.

I'm used to shooting a larger caliber, so a shoulder shot is usually a done deal.

 A shoulder shot with a good bullet is a done deal. I'm just Not sold on fragile bullets. They just feel too liberal and squishy to me.
If your going to be a Bush Alaskan You need a perfect winter rifle. The Ruger M77 Hawkeye SS in 6.5 Creedmoor is mine.<br>You are being watched.

Re: Ammunition question/problem.

Reply #12
If that happened to me I think I might just get a box of Federal Fusion bonded 140's and sally forth.

Back in the day, Sierra bullets were considered the go-to match bullets. They also made and sold 'hunting' bullets, but they had a rep of not holding together very well.

More recently, it came in vogue to hunt using match bullets. This may have coincided with the trend to start shooting game at long range as an end in itself, and not as a necessity. The match bullet makers even started modifying their match bullets and marketing them as 'hunting' bullets.  Obviously, accuracy is necessary to hit the critter we're hunting, but proper bullet construction is also required for the bullet to take care of business once it arrives.  The more fragile a bullet one chooses to use, the more sense I think it makes to avoid the shoulder and go for the lungs.

I've just got my Creedmoor, and will be scoping it prolly this week. I have a variety of ammo to try in it, including Fusion 140's, 120 Interlocks, and the 143 ELD-X *(which I got based on the glowing reviews of Sportacus). I will be getting and trying other ammo, as well.  What I'll end up hunting with remains to be seen.

I agree with Cold Trigger Finger to a fair extent.

However, I also agree with txaggie. Deer are living creatures. Just like in war you shoot somebody normally they fall down and that's the end of it. But then you run into somebody like Audie Murphy. The dude just won't go down no matter how many times you shoot him. The will to live is stronger in some examples of living things than others, and while you can't quantify it, you tend to know it when you see it. Sometimes things go wrong, or things happen that have no ready explanation.  Or maybe you happened to find a deer that had a strong will to live and there was a bullet issue, too, or a placement issue. Sometimes it's several things at once.

I've never used dogs to try to find a deer, but I am on my second Airedale. And they are hunting fools! Harley Quinn just turned 4, and even just walking her out to do her business I see her criss-crossing like she's trying to cut a trail.

I think it was Bob Hagel who said, 'Don't use something that's gonna work when everything goes right. Use something that's going to work when everything goes wrong.'  Mebbeso words to live by.

And JD, you're a good man for letting this situation bother you like it has. That's called an ethical hunter who always wants to make a clean kill and not make the animal suffer, and one who gets upset when that doesn't happen.

 

Re: Ammunition question/problem.

Reply #13
I haven't gotten the opportunity to hunt (or shoot) my Creedmoor yet but I will say that I did quite a bit of looking before joining after I won my gun and I saw a massive amount of positive information on the ELDx 143 gr.  So just what I found. 
Trying to turn into a Mountain Man one year at a time.

Re: Ammunition question/problem.

Reply #14
 The Accubond and the Sirocco2 are 2 plastic tip bullets that alter the results most high bc plastic tip bullets have.
 Why Hornady quit making the InterBond is beyond me.
If your going to be a Bush Alaskan You need a perfect winter rifle. The Ruger M77 Hawkeye SS in 6.5 Creedmoor is mine.<br>You are being watched.