I want to see more results before I get too tied up with side effects. If there's really no demonstrable, consistent improvement in ES/SD, or nothing shows up on the targets, it's just another moonshot that didn't pan out as envisioned
I called Ransom International this morning to inquire about one of their rests. Instead of being routed around in auto-attendant hell like I'm used these days, I spoke directly with the people who actually run the show. All my questions were answered to my satisfaction. Good advice was furnished. I was made to feel as if nothing was more important to them than assisting me. This was quite a refreshing experience for someone who's become cynical and jaded about today's version of customer service.
I don’t have as much experience reloading for 6.5 Creedmore as you guys have , but tell me how is this process Different from using Wilson hand dies with a correct bushing for neck tension as I do I may be missing something When I started I spoke with Lester Bruno and he walked me through the whole process and what to get How is this different
Piper11, the step described here is purely experimental and is in addition to all other steps, it could be applied to your finished rounds as well. But, if you are seeing single-digit SDs with your finished rounds, I doubt it would be of any any interest, your'e already there.
I will pull a bullet to see if there's any sort of deformation or other artifacts caused by this process. I'll pull an uncrimped one as well so I have something to compare if to. Unfortunately I don't own a collet puller I've got the old hammer style beater.
From what I've read it's very difficult to compress solids. Solids my be deformed of course, but that's just moving the material around from one location to another. I've generally felt that the proper use of a Lee collet die should result in complete contact of the neck with the mandrel without leaving visible collet marks on the outside of the neck, I followed that same operating procedure with the second crimp. Of course a bullet is softer than a stainless mandrel...
To me, true crimping using a bullet with a cannelure is an entirely different program. The net result may be similar if, and only if, the crimp I'm experimenting with does in fact increase bullet grip.
I think of the neck as an imperfect collar for lack of a better word. We've all probably looked at necks under magnification; it's a moonscape.
My thinking on this one is to increase the amount of brass in contact with the bullet which should result in more bullet grip.
Looked at another way, bullet bearing surfaces are imperfect, necks are imperfect. If the end game is to have this interface be closer to perfect, there are any number of ways to go about it. This approach is to take the hand I'm dealt and coerce the two surfaces to come closer together, like a shotgun wedding I guess.
Using only what I see, I'm thinking a jacketed bullet is more perfect surface-wise than any neck I've seen. I really don't want to deform the bullet which I don't think would happen since brass is quite malleable.
Thanks for sharing that. Very interesting, to say the least. You may be stumbling on something and I'll be looking for future results. Did you see any difference in the grouping at all?
Steamer, I was looking more to the velocity metrics for validation rather than groups at 100 yards. I would be lying if I said I didn't care about group size and wasn't shooting for groups, lol. In this case the groups were decent, all in the sub-MOA range.
I think it was member Regnar who mentioned that ES/SD metrics become more important as the distance to target increases, since I don't have any place to shoot past 300 yards without driving a long ways, I've always accepted his assertion.
In any event, I've got enough time on my hands to move forward to see if this approach bears fruit. I was very cautious the first time out not wanting to make the cork so tight so as to cause a kaboom.
This has probably been tried before but I'm the type that needs to make my own mistakes
I use Lee collet dies for neck sizing, not to say there isn't anything better, but for a shooter who doesn't turn necks, it's an elegant solution that's inexpensive. I got this crazy idea to adapt a Lee collet die so it puts a full neck "crimp" on a finished round. Why you ask, good question. I ask why not? I've read about some of the benefits resulting from crimping, this is an extension of that.
Anyway, below is the basic anatomy of a Lee collet die; the piece I named the "collar" may not be the correct name; it's the tapered part that when used to apply force to the collet, causes the collet to compress the neck.
In order to use a Lee collet die to compress the neck of a finished round we need to remove the mandrel; the new mandrel will be the bullet. One problem remains; the mandrel for a 6.5 bullet is .262 or so, no way will a .264 bullet fit in the hole. So, I replaced the collar (which the mandrel runs through) with one from a 7mm-08 Lee collet die. This allows the bullet to pass freely through the collar.
I adjusted the die so that my CoAx cams over to where I can feel the squeeze without leaving collet marks on the brass. I observed a reduction in neck O.D. of about 0.0005". I get this from a Mitutoyo caliper with 4-digits, I don't believe it's that precise but, uncrimped cases measure firm to 3-digits every round. So, there's some reduction in O.D. but I don't want to overstate the case (ahem).
The first (and so far only) trial appears to favor the "crimped" rounds. This is a small sample, but I am encouraged to push on and see where it goes. These results use 7x fired Alpha brass case, wet tumbled, annealed, body sized and bumped 0.001, Lee collet neck sized with standard mandrel to roughly 0.002 neck tension. I also lubed the necks with OneShot based on observations by HufD63. All bullets were seated 0.013 OTL on top of 40.5 gr H4350 ignited with CCI BR-2 primers. Rifle used was my trusty Browning X-Bolt 6.5 CM 28" target.
Last week I pulled out a 6.5 Grendel upper to run on two different lower receivers with different triggers. My plan was to shoot 10 rounds each to help me decide which trigger I like better. Ammo was Hornady 120 gr Amax factory. 100 yards.
I was stunned to see 6 MOA groups on the target
It's been so long since I shot this upper I'm a bit fuzzy as to what it did before, but 6 MOA was not it. I may have changed scopes but again, it's been long enough I don't remember.
Something is obviously wrong; I'm no marksman but I can sure as heck do better than 6 MOA.
I'm thinking start with the scope and mount, any other ideas what to look at?
ps. The Gieselle SSA-E trigger won me over by a wide margin
My first clue is when I back off on the seating die, even by a generous amount since it's a new lot, then out comes the "Say What?".
In a recent switch from the last of a lot to a new one I made more of an adjustment than I had contemplated but once made the new bullets run just like the old ones. Happily I have 1000 of the new ones
Talking 6.5 Creedmoor not being pushed to the limit,
Once I calibrated to my base velocity of 2735 fps today, I guessed every 2750 or greater shot correctly 100% of the time. In other words, Lab Radar takes a few seconds to show the result of a shot, that's my guess time window.
I mentioned it to an RSO who suggested I bring it up again April Fools day, lol.
I know a real mean one when I feel it, or a powder puff, today was different.
Just wondering what others believe they can reliably feel once a shot is fired?