Good article (http://www.americanrifleman.org/Webcontent/pdf/2009-6/200961145351-hornadycreedmoor.pdf) from NRA's American Rifleman magazine.
Here is some loads Ran through Quick load. It was taken from different forum
Cartridge : 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Bullet : .264, 120, Nosler BalTip 26120
Useable Case Capaci: 48.970 grain H2O = 3.180 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 61000 psi, or 420 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 111 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
131 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Norma MRP 109.2 51.4 3.33 3209 99.2 61000 10613 1.156 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 110.8 51.1 3.31 3185 96.3 61000 10689 1.156 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 111.0 53.3 3.45 3168 94.7 60750 10667 1.163 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15 111.0 50.7 3.28 3165 98.1 60647 10360 1.163 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 111.0 50.7 3.28 3165 98.1 60647 10360 1.163 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 111.0 50.7 3.28 3165 98.1 60647 10360 1.163 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 108.8 50.5 3.27 3155 96.6 61000 10296 1.153 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 109.6 50.0 3.24 3136 96.4 61000 10189 1.154 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 105.2 47.2 3.06 3131 100.0 61000 8976 1.171 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 102.8 47.9 3.11 3123 99.6 61000 9639 1.169 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 107.3 48.5 3.14 3118 97.9 61000 9847 1.164 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 97.1 46.3 3.00 3116 99.1 61000 9631 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 97.1 46.3 3.00 3116 99.1 61000 9631 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 94.6 44.8 2.90 3116 100.0 61000 9107 1.159 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 106.5 47.8 3.10 3113 97.8 61000 9762 1.159 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 108.1 48.8 3.16 3110 97.9 61000 9770 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 102.3 45.7 2.96 3104 100.0 61000 9260 1.176 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 102.4 45.7 2.96 3104 100.0 61000 9257 1.176 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 99.4 45.8 2.97 3104 100.0 61000 9382 1.181 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 111.0 53.6 3.48 3102 96.2 57381 10344 1.184 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 106.3 45.9 2.97 3101 100.0 61000 9231 1.191 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 12 111.0 53.5 3.47 3092 96.2 56796 10303 1.190 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 105.0 47.4 3.07 3089 97.7 61000 9564 1.167 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 101.7 47.4 3.07 3089 97.7 61000 9564 1.167 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4 105.0 47.4 3.07 3089 97.7 61000 9564 1.167 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517 111.0 53.5 3.47 3086 96.0 56473 10301 1.193 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905 111.0 49.7 3.22 3086 95.7 58627 9897 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 107.4 46.4 3.01 3085 100.0 61000 9052 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame 95.4 44.5 2.88 3083 100.0 61000 8913 1.177 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 11 95.6 44.5 2.89 3081 100.0 61000 8900 1.177 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S385 107.6 49.1 3.18 3080 98.7 61000 9433 1.184 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 108.2 49.4 3.20 3076 95.7 61000 9580 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 111.0 49.6 3.21 3073 97.0 55034 10149 1.215 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 92.1 41.6 2.69 3070 100.0 61000 8821 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 102.5 47.0 3.04 3068 98.9 61000 9272 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 108.8 45.9 2.97 3063 100.0 61000 8501 1.175 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 92.9 41.9 2.72 3061 100.0 61000 8792 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 92.9 41.9 2.72 3061 100.0 61000 8792 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11 92.9 41.9 2.72 3061 100.0 61000 8792 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester Supreme 780 105.5 50.2 3.25 3061 97.7 61000 9305 1.170 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 93.4 42.1 2.73 3058 100.0 61000 8720 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 94.2 43.5 2.82 3053 99.9 61000 8919 1.189 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070 101.6 45.4 2.94 3052 99.2 61000 9129 1.190 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904 105.6 47.0 3.04 3049 96.6 61000 9265 1.173 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 94.8 43.2 2.80 3049 100.0 61000 8585 1.199 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 104.3 46.1 2.99 3048 98.6 61000 9066 1.176 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 102.4 46.0 2.98 3047 98.7 61000 9052 1.176 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 516 90.9 43.7 2.83 3044 99.9 61000 8812 1.181 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903 96.9 43.3 2.80 3043 100.0 61000 8508 1.199 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 94.9 42.1 2.73 3042 100.0 61000 8469 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7 NT ~approximation 96.1 43.8 2.84 3041 99.3 61000 8839 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355 96.9 42.8 2.77 3037 100.0 61000 8521 1.194 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 9 90.7 42.3 2.74 3033 100.0 61000 8502 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 111.0 48.7 3.16 3029 95.1 57977 9458 1.191 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 2214 111.0 52.0 3.37 3029 95.2 56074 9820 1.200 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065 100.3 44.3 2.87 3029 99.7 61000 8809 1.192 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 111.0 48.7 3.16 3028 94.8 53442 9969 1.223
Rottweil R907 99.0 43.9 2.84 3025 98.6 61000 8939 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 95.9 43.9 2.85 3024 98.6 61000 8932 1.188 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET 95.6 41.8 2.71 3022 100.0 61000 8487 1.178 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 95.3 41.8 2.71 3022 100.0 61000 8487 1.178 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5 NT ~approximation 111.0 51.1 3.31 3022 92.9 56852 9734 1.199 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3 NT ~approximation 97.8 43.9 2.84 3019 99.7 61000 8628 1.177 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 92.4 39.0 2.53 3014 100.0 61000 7876 1.191 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 96.2 41.0 2.66 3013 100.0 61000 8312 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S361 104.3 50.2 3.25 3011 95.7 61000 9038 1.186 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S062 93.9 41.2 2.67 3010 100.0 61000 8180 1.196 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 111.0 49.8 3.23 3008 99.0 49584 9999 1.264
Accurate 4064 98.8 41.7 2.70 3007 100.0 61000 8039 1.221 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 111.0 49.6 3.21 3000 97.7 56894 9052 1.210 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N150 102.1 43.5 2.82 2992 100.0 61000 8011 1.194 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 92.6 42.3 2.74 2991 100.0 61000 8028 1.194 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R902 92.8 40.4 2.62 2990 100.0 61000 8040 1.201 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 90.4 40.1 2.60 2988 100.0 61000 7877 1.195 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 111.0 48.0 3.11 2984 95.9 57920 8963 1.203 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 91.9 39.2 2.54 2978 100.0 61000 7735 1.228 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S060 90.5 39.8 2.58 2972 100.0 61000 7946 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2700 96.9 45.2 2.93 2970 98.4 61000 8405 1.193 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N140 92.4 40.9 2.65 2959 100.0 61000 7576 1.195 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N135 98.3 40.2 2.61 2950 100.0 61000 7385 1.205 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S335 90.5 40.0 2.59 2916 100.0 61000 7293 1.206 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 111.0 50.1 3.25 2901 93.1 44532 9985 1.334
Vihtavuori N133 92.2 38.1 2.47 2891 100.0 61000 6939 1.199 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 3100 111.0 47.4 3.07 2888 98.1 48970 8917 1.316
Vihtavuori N570 111.0 52.8 3.42 2869 85.2 43683 10297 1.345
Hodgdon H1000 111.0 49.6 3.21 2840 92.0 46150 9266 1.312
Hodgdon Retumbo 111.0 50.4 3.26 2772 93.5 39598 9758 1.406
Lovex D100 111.0 53.9 3.49 2734 80.3 46271 8392 1.333
Vihtavuori 24N41 111.0 53.4 3.46 2691 76.4 42906 8600 1.373
ADI AR 2218 111.0 53.4 3.46 2685 78.6 40304 9470 1.407
Vihtavuori N170 111.0 49.6 3.21 2683 83.3 40912 8489 1.415
Hodgdon H870 111.0 51.7 3.35 2622 82.1 34720 9217 1.498
Alliant Reloder-50 111.0 54.2 3.51 2549 77.0 31475 9176 1.563
Hodgdon 50BMG 111.0 50.9 3.30 2493 67.7 34500 7819 1.516
Hodgdon US 869 111.0 53.4 3.46 2489 71.5 34248 7881 1.523
SNPE Vectan SP 13 111.0 51.2 3.32 2435 75.8 30721 7848 1.587
PB Clermont PCL 513/520/9520 111.0 51.2 3.32 2366 72.1 29032 7510 1.627
Vihtavuori 20N29 111.0 53.9 3.49 2359 69.7 29176 7597 1.627
Accurate 8700 111.0 51.3 3.32 2327 71.2 28750 7320 1.636
NC A3502 ,test only 111.0 49.0 3.18 2182 49.0 28499 5428 1.666
TLP A 502(RH) ,test only 111.0 49.0 3.18 2159 53.2 26371 5816 1.711
Vihtavuori N32C Tin Star 97.7 22.0 1.43 2157 100.0 61000 3302 1.340 ! Near Maximum !
IMR TrailBoss 111.0 16.9 1.09 1880 100.0 40521 2639 1.593
ADI AS 25 BP 111.0 16.9 1.09 1880 100.0 40521 2639 1.593
V1734 7-multiperf ,test only 111.0 49.0 3.18 1549 24.0 15080 2636 2.260
Courtesy of a member of this forum
Case capacity and propellant properties may vary considerably from lot to lot!
**** Input data: Date: 16-Apr-2013 Time: 16:45:02
Cartridge................. = 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Projectile type........... = .264, 120, Hornady GMX 26110 with boattail
Max.avg.pressure(Piezo )= 60191 psi Shot start / init pressure = 3626 psi
Projectile weight (gr)= 120 Groove caliber (in)= 0.264
Length of cartridge (in)= 2.670 Length of case (in)= 1.920
Case capacity(Grains Water)= 52.80 Length of projectile (in)= 1.300
Length of barrel (in)= 28.000
**** Values calculated:
Seating depth (in)= 0.550 Volume displaced (gn H2O)= 7.41
Comb.chamber volume(gn H2O)= 45.39 Projectile travel (in)= 26.630
**** Input data:
Propellant type........... = Vihtavuori N135
Charge weight..........(gr)= 37.8 Load density......(g/cu.cm)= 0.831
Heat of Explosion (cal/lb)= 388942 Ratio of spec. heats cp/cv = 1.240
Solid density (gr/cu.in)= 397.0 Weighting factor...........= 0.5
Burning rate factor Ba(1/s)= 0.575 Pro-/degressivity factor a = 1.830
Burning limit ......... z1 = 0.5 Combust.Chamber Vb(ft³)= 1.040738E-4
Factor.................. b = 1.963 X-S.Area of Bore A(ft²)= 3.723358E-4
Bulk density (gr/cu.in)= 210.9 Projectile mass mp (lb)= 1.714286E-2
Loading ratio (%)= 99.6 Projectile travel x(ft)= 2.219167E+0
**** Results calculated:
Maximum pressure ........ = 58671 psi Way of projectile at Pmax = 1.85 in
Muzzle velocity ......Ve = 2930 fps Muzzle pressure .......Pe = 6315 psi
Project. energy at muzzle = 2287 ft.lbs Fraction of powder burnt = 100 %
Projectile travel time from 10% Pmax to muzzle = 1.28 ms
Courtesy of a member of this forum
**** Input data: Date: 16-Apr-2013 Time: 16:42:16
Cartridge................. = 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Projectile type........... = .264, 100, Hornady SP 2610 with flatbase
Max.avg.pressure(Piezo )= 60191 psi Shot start / init pressure = 3626 psi
Projectile weight (gr)= 100 Groove caliber (in)= 0.264
Length of cartridge (in)= 2.655 Length of case (in)= 1.920
Case capacity(Grains Water)= 52.80 Length of projectile (in)= 0.982
Length of barrel (in)= 28.000
**** Values calculated:
Seating depth (in)= 0.247 Volume displaced (gn H2O)= 3.42
Comb.chamber volume(gn H2O)= 49.38 Projectile travel (in)= 26.327
**** Input data:
Propellant type........... = Vihtavuori N135
Charge weight..........(gr)= 40.0 Load density......(g/cu.cm)= 0.808
Heat of Explosion (cal/lb)= 388942 Ratio of spec. heats cp/cv = 1.240
Solid density (gr/cu.in)= 397.0 Weighting factor...........= 0.5
Burning rate factor Ba(1/s)= 0.575 Pro-/degressivity factor a = 1.830
Burning limit ......... z1 = 0.5 Combust.Chamber Vb(ft³)= 1.132086E-4
Factor.................. b = 1.963 X-S.Area of Bore A(ft²)= 3.723358E-4
Bulk density (gr/cu.in)= 210.9 Projectile mass mp (lb)= 1.428571E-2
Loading ratio (%)= 96.9 Projectile travel x(ft)= 2.193898E+0
**** Results calculated:
Maximum pressure ........ = 51291 psi Way of projectile at Pmax = 2.17 in
Muzzle velocity ......Ve = 3133 fps Muzzle pressure .......Pe = 6769 psi
Project. energy at muzzle = 2179 ft.lbs Fraction of powder burnt = 100 %
Projectile travel time from 10% Pmax to muzzle = 1.25 ms
Real maximum of pressure inside barrel.
End of combustion before the projectile passes muzzle.
One more
Case capacity and propellant properties may vary considerably from lot to lot!
**** Input data: Date: 13-Apr-2013 Time: 19:03:38
Cartridge................. = 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Projectile type........... = .264, 140, Hornady A-MAX 26332 with boattail
Max.avg.pressure(Piezo )= 60191 psi Shot start / init pressure = 3626 psi
Projectile weight (gr)= 140 Groove caliber (in)= 0.264
Length of cartridge (in)= 2.810 Length of case (in)= 1.920
Case capacity(Grains Water)= 50.50 Length of projectile (in)= 1.375
Length of barrel (in)= 28.000
**** Values calculated:
Seating depth (in)= 0.485 Volume displaced (gn H2O)= 6.26
Comb.chamber volume(gn H2O)= 44.24 Projectile travel (in)= 26.565
**** Input data:
Propellant type........... = Vihtavuori N160
Charge weight..........(gr)= 42.5 Load density......(g/cu.cm)= 0.959
Heat of Explosion (cal/lb)= 392193 Ratio of spec. heats cp/cv = 1.242
Solid density (gr/cu.in)= 402.1 Weighting factor...........= 0.5
Burning rate factor Ba(1/s)= 0.466 Pro-/degressivity factor a = 0.352
Burning limit ......... z1 = 0.5 Combust.Chamber Vb(ft³)= 1.01432E-4
Factor.................. b = 1.451 X-S.Area of Bore A(ft²)= 3.723386E-4
Bulk density (gr/cu.in)= 223.0 Projectile mass mp (lb)= 1.999966E-2
Loading ratio (%)= 108.7 Projectile travel x(ft)= 2.213747E+0
**** Results calculated:
Maximum pressure ........ = 54693 psi Way of projectile at Pmax = 1.59 in
Muzzle velocity ......Ve = 2729 fps Muzzle pressure .......Pe = 7503 psi
Project. energy at muzzle = 2315 ft.lbs Fraction of powder burnt = 96.7 %
Projectile travel time from 10% Pmax to muzzle = 1.38 ms
WARNING: Near Maximum Average Pressure - tolerances can cause dangerous pressures !
Real maximum of pressure inside barrel.
End of combustion after the projectile passes muzzle.
Some more data that I got from other forum
6.5 Creedmoor load over 139 Lapua
6.5 base line.........2772, 2772
Varget:
38.....2478
38.5.....2496, 2506, 2515
39.....2539
39.5.....2583
40.....2614
40.5.....2688
41.....2693
Notes: No signs of any pressure.
CFE223:
44.....2754
44.5.....2749
45.....2818, 2766, 2789
45.5.....2836
Notes: All primers were flat, but no other signs of pressure presented. Bolt lift very easy, no signs of e-swipe.
IMR8208XBR:
39.....2693
39.5.....2732
40.....2726
40.5.....2760
41.....2789 BLOWN PRIMER!!! Stopped.
H414:
41.....2442
41.5.....2455
42.....2501
42.5.....2534
42.9.....2564
Notes: No pressure seen.
H4350:
42.1.....2534
42.6.....2594, 2588, 2578
43.1.....2624
43.6.....2661
Notes: No pressure seen.
2/22/13 Follow up, 55 degrees.
6.5 CM base line......2801, 2795, 2801, 2795, 2801 (that seems about right for this load)
H4350: (decided to continue up to see where pressure is seen)
44.....2745
44.5.....2766
45.....2772
45.5.....2783
Notes: No pressure seen. 45, and 45.5 were compressed loads. Also the same two were through the same hole.
Power Pro 2000 MR (Federal 308 cases used)
42......wouldn't chamber
42.5.....2795
43.....wouldn't chamber
43.5.....2818
44......2855 (slightest of e-swipe)
Notes: Going to reshoot with Hornady brass.
CFE223 (reshoot higher to see where pressure is starting)
45.....2842, 2812, 2801 (.25" group!!)
46.....2873
46.5.....2911 (flat primer)
47.....2936 (Heavy bolt, stopped!!!)
Notes: Happy with group size, and velocity. I don't know what to think about the extreme spread.
AR Comp: (Federal cases)
37.....2619
38.....2715
38.5.....2710 (Heavy bolt lift, Stopped)
Varget (reshoot higher to see where pressure is starting)
40.6.....2789 (Federal brass)
40.8.....2743 (Federal brass)
41.5.....2780 (back to Hornady)
42.....2766
42.5.....2777
Notes: No pressure seen. Interesting that the Federal brass had higher velocity with lower charge.
I AM VERY IMPRESSED WITH THE INFO IN THIS POST.
IVE BEEN RELOADING WITH SUCCESS ( I THOUGHT) FOR A PRETTY LONG TIME BUT THIS IS THE MOST TECHNICAL INFORMATION I HAVE SEEN. WOW!! IT REALLY TELLS YOU EVERYTHING I WOULD HAVE NEVER THOUGHT OF. ITS REALLY OVER MY HEAD BUT I STILL ENJOYED THE READ AND DETAIL INFORMATION
Any idea what barrel length that H4350 info came from as those velocities are very low. With 43.5grns in my 26.5" barrel I am getting 2930fps with my 140 AMAXs.
i wish i could get that with mine i run 42,7 behind 140 vld and can only get 2785 with a 28 " bartlein1:8 5r
Quote from: Rob01 on June 10, 2013, 06:37:39 AMAny idea what barrel length that H4350 info came from as those velocities are very low. With 43.5grns in my 26.5" barrel I am getting 2930fps with my 140 AMAXs.
Maybe your bullet goes into the lands and there is initial pressure buildup
It doesn't. It's loaded well out of the lands. The velocities below are very low for the Creedmoor and H4350 and that's why I was wondering. It's either a very short barrel or a short semi.
H4350:
42.1.....2534
42.6.....2594, 2588, 2578
43.1.....2624
43.6.....2661
Notes: No pressure seen.
I agree with Rob. Those velocities are way off. Maybe they are for a 14" Creedmoor handgun.
Great info!
Thanks
Any more on the Alliant PP 2000-MR loads?
I have several pounds and would like to work up some loads.
Anyone with quickload data?
robo1.
please help me figure this thing out if we can. as you have seen my load works. but for the life of me I cant figure out what our diffrences are.
heres my complete breakdown for you to go off of.
1-necksize brass
2chambfer with a 22 degree tool
3-uniformed primer pockets
4CAREFULLY AND METICULOUSLY load 42.7 gr of h-4350 check accuracy on a certified 10-10 scale also
5 seat 140 gr vld using redding competition die with vld stem
take the time before a match to weight sort all brass ,bullets and even fed 210match primers. neck tension is 3-4 thousanths and seating depth is .020 off the lands using a hornady .264 caliber insert measuring off the ogive.
I typically shoot at 350ft above sealevel with 73%(this morning) to 90% humidity.
I have a 28" bartlein 5r-1"8 twist barrel and get ONLY 2785 FPS with an es of 12 fps
I wish I new how your getting so much faster than me.
everybody look at my info and tell me whats causing the difference.
Honestly it probably boils down to three things as the brass, primers and although the bullets aren't the same they should be close enough. Slower barrel, chamber dimensions and different lot of powder. Slower barrels happen. Just one of those things.
Chamber reamers aren't all the same either. A new reamer will be slightly larger than one that has been sharpened over the years. The reamer GAP used in my set back barrel above was the original reamer they used when building those first Creedmoor rifles of ours 5 years ago. Over that time it's been sharpened and does get minimally smaller in doing so. I actually gained about 60-80fps, depending on load and lot of ammo, over my 28" barrel when I had it set back. The chamber is the only thing that changed besides the barrel being 1.5" shorter.
And of course lots of powder will be slightly different. Any one or a small combination of all of them might be doing it.
ITS STILL A MYSTERY THEN,
AFTER 520 ROUNDS LOGGED IM STILL ON THE ORIGINAL 8LB OF POWDER I BOUGHT. TO A SHOOTER AND NOT A GUNSMITH MINDED GUY LIKE ME I WOULD THINK THAT A HI QUALITY BARRELL LIKE BARTLEIN IN A 1:8 TWIST WOULD SHOOT PRETTY DAMN CLOSE TO EACH OTHER WITH THE SAME LOAD. WE ALMOST SHOOT THE SAME LOAD-FED PRIMERS-HORNADY BRASS- 4350 (GIVE OR TAKE A FEW GRAINS)AND A 140 GR BULLET BUT VERY VERY DIFFRENT VELOCITIES.
Swampthing,
You may have already done this but exchange reloads. Fire some of his reloads in your rifle and have him fire some of yours (assuming you trust each others reloads) and check the results.
i get 2815 m.v. with 42.3 H-4350 M12 lrp 26"and 142 SMK. got 2920 with PPro with E-swipe not to bad.
Swampthing ; I think it must be your lot of powder. . I think trading loads or get a 1 lb can of the same powder but different lot # .
I have had dramatically different results in different rifles over the years from different lots of different powders. .
I do believe there are fast and slow barrels but I'de bet it is just a slow lot of powder.
One way to eliminate your barrel as being the culprit is to just try a box of factory ammo and chronograph it. Or a hand load of known velocity in a different rifle and see what your speed is.
But I would just try a pound of a different lot # first.
I may not be a target shooter but in over 30 years of reloading and using chronographs for 25 years have picked up a few tips on getting the Max safe speed from a bullet.
Quote from: yura.odessit on April 18, 2013, 06:14:36 PMHere is some loads Ran through Quick load. It was taken from different forum
Cartridge : 6.5 Creedmoor Hornady
Bullet : .264, 120, Nosler BalTip 26120
Useable Case Capaci: 48.970 grain H2O = 3.180 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 61000 psi, or 420 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 111 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
131 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 90%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
---------------------------------
IMR 4831 107.4 46.4 3.01 3085 100.0 61000 9052 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
Am I reading this right? 46.4 grains is a compressed load of IMR4831 and near max?
Thanks
Mark
Great info! Not sure what a few of the numbers mean. Anyone help with the jargon? Thanks
×2
I have read from a couple shooters that they are using H380 for the 140 amax. Does anyone have any info on H380? I have a great load in the 308 with it and have ample stock on hand. Would love to use it in the creedmoor, but no load data.
The Lee Second Edition reloading manual lists H380 for 140 grain Amax. Load range = 34.5 grains - 38,5 grains. I have managed a 0.597" 5 shot group with 35.0 grains of the stuff under a 140 Amax. By the way, check the Hodgdon site. It lists a load for H380 as well.
What velocity were you getting?
I did not shoot this load over a chronograph, so my best estimate would be somewhere around 2400fps
Quote from: Rob01 on July 26, 2013, 03:13:45 PMHonestly it probably boils down to three things as the brass, primers and although the bullets aren't the same they should be close enough. Slower barrel, chamber dimensions and different lot of powder. Slower barrels happen. Just one of those things.
Chamber reamers aren't all the same either. A new reamer will be slightly larger than one that has been sharpened over the years. The reamer GAP used in my set back barrel above was the original reamer they used when building those first Creedmoor rifles of ours 5 years ago. Over that time it's been sharpened and does get minimally smaller in doing so. I actually gained about 60-80fps, depending on load and lot of ammo, over my 28" barrel when I had it set back. The chamber is the only thing that changed besides the barrel being 1.5" shorter.
And of course lots of powder will be slightly different. Any one or a small combination of all of them might be doing it.
I believe a 1-8 twist will be slower than a 1-9 twist, are all the barrels the same twist?
Actually 1:8 is faster than 1:9 - the bullet rotates 360 degrees in 8" of barrel travel = less time than the 1:9 which takes 9" of travel.
Quote from: Cold Trigger Finger on October 17, 2013, 02:57:32 PMSwampthing ; I think it must be your lot of powder. .
We must have the same 8# lot.......... I can't get my H4350 to work like others I have moved to Varget and it I better but slower, this week I got in 2# of RE17 I will be trying.
Quote from: X-Pilot on August 25, 2015, 04:07:38 PMQuote from: Rob01 on July 26, 2013, 03:13:45 PMHonestly it probably boils down to three things as the brass, primers and although the bullets aren't the same they should be close enough. Slower barrel, chamber dimensions and different lot of powder. Slower barrels happen. Just one of those things.
Chamber reamers aren't all the same either. A new reamer will be slightly larger than one that has been sharpened over the years. The reamer GAP used in my set back barrel above was the original reamer they used when building those first Creedmoor rifles of ours 5 years ago. Over that time it's been sharpened and does get minimally smaller in doing so. I actually gained about 60-80fps, depending on load and lot of ammo, over my 28" barrel when I had it set back. The chamber is the only thing that changed besides the barrel being 1.5" shorter.
And of course lots of powder will be slightly different. Any one or a small combination of all of them might be doing it.
I believe a 1-8 twist will be slower than a 1-9 twist, are all the barrels the same twist?
Must have missed this months back. Lol 8 twist is faster as mentioned and that example was the same barrel so everything the same except length and chamber.
I'm new at this reloading above Max loads so please bare with me. :-[ I have a 1:8 Krieger #3 26 inch bbl with 49 rounds through it as of yesterday. I'm loading 140 Berger VLD's with H4350. COAL is book; 2.80. I did a ladder test yesterday starting at 37.0 grains and working up to 41.0 grains in 1 grain increments. 37.0 was the most accurate (0.43 inch; 3 shot group) and 41.0 was 0.76 inch with a 3 shot group. These figures are based on dividing the group by 2 since they were shot at 200 yards. Put me at 100 yards and my groups are measured in feet and I have to use refrigerator boxes for targets. So, I'm going to work up to 42 grains today and see what happens. Personally, I think it is the old 8-ball Geezer behind the gun and that there is not enough difference between 37 grains and 41 grains except velocity. I figured once I got a "good" group I would start tweaking COAL and then start running velocities. Ha! ::)
Geezing in NC
Tom
Chrono that 37grn load. I am betting it is very slow. But if it works for you then stick with it.
Tom; Many of us found our best accuracy load within 42 gr of H4350 with 140 Berger's . Mine is 42.8 gr . gives me sub 1" groups at 300meters. Tho far and away from any kind of bragging group on here , its pretty good , OK from a factory rifle that I chopped the barrel off. Myself, with a Sawzall ! ;D
Also, tho Krieger barrels are real good right out the gate. I do think it will season in and groups will shrink for you.
With 140s that have a harder jacket I can use more powder . Possibly with the Berger Target bullet I could also . the load I worked up is with the Hunting VLD.
Anyway, I predict you will find a sweet spot somewhere in the 42 gr H4350 140gr bullets .
Work up slowly and there you'll be.
I have yet to work up over 41 grains with any 140 grain bullet. My loads with the 140 ELD-M were moving around 2725 with 41 grains out of a 26" tube, and I will work up higher in charge.
I wonder if that guy meant the velocity would be slower with a 1-8" twist there is effectively more resistance due to the tighter twist? I don't know if that even comes into play. Has anyone doen a study on twist rate and velocity? I wonder if we could get even better velocity with a gain twist barrel!
I'm kidding about the gain twist. It's not like we're shooting 30mm projectiles at 3000 fps here... Hell, some of the bullets we shoot aren't even 30mm long! I can't wait to get off this night shift. It makes me ramble so much.
Gain twist rifleing does help mitigate peak pressure. At least one of our 6.5 predessors ( the 6.5 Carcano) had gain twist rifleing. And from the records of ruptured cases and failures to extract , the 256 Mannlicher, could have used it also. With the powders of the day , even 2200fps with a 160 gr bullet under tropical conditions proved too much for the brass to handle.
In modern times , the 460 Smith and Wesson had to have gain twist rifleing to function in the XVR ,with safety and dependability.
There may well be others. Like the 454 Casul that could use it but FA went with a slow twist. There are no doubt others, but those come to mind.
I think all 6.5s should have gain twist rifleing . Just makes for a nicer transition from dead still to ?how many thousand rpm , in a split second. No wonder some bullets blow up in mid air .
I think those thin jacketed varmint bullets blow up regardless of how fast you get them to their terminal RPM. Although, there could be some tearing of the jacket in the barrel from the rifling that compromises the integrity of the bullet. But, I think a 22-250 with a 35 grains varmint bullet will detonate outside the barrel with a fast enough twist even if you used polygonal rifling and gain twist if the rate is fast enough.
So, the twist rate can, indeed, influence peak pressure, but does that mean you retain the same muzzle velocity, or would the MV also drop enough to be statistically relevant to cartridge performance. Also, I wonder how fast we could get the 6.5 Creedmoor going safely witth a gain twist barrel? Could you imagine how much that barrel would cost? To go from 0-8" twist in 26" or less? I wonder if there is a minimum barrel length necessary to stabilize the bullet at the final twist rate. I mean, surely you can't just have one or two calibers of final twist rate at the end of the barrel and call it good, can you?
I didn't realize the 454 Casull could benefit from gain twist. I know it is high pressure, but... Aww hell. there I go again. Talk to you guys later.
I worked up a load today using CFE and a 140gr Barnes matchburner in a RPR. When I got to 44grs the primers let go in Hornady brass.
I would think so hodgdon list 41.5 as max on 107 grn pill. When did you get flat primers? Did you happen to chronograph any of those?
No chrono numbers. 41.5 with a 107gr bullet wow. Yah that's a smoking hot load with a 140. I found that load somewhere. I'll have to look for it again.
HOLY SMOKE! Check those cases for expansion!
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Also, I've tested loads where I got to popping primers without ever even getting a hint of bolt lift, then 0.3 grains later, POW! heavy bolt and blown primer... Not a great feeling.
The funny thing is I cleaned the barrel before that five round test. The first three cases are reloadable and the last two are history. Blowing the primer in a Hornady case is not near the pressure that it takes to blow a case. Ive seen a guy get his powders mixed up and over charge a case to the point he created a new cartridge. The new 243 belted magnum that uses shot gun primers. He was probably pretty close to a case rupture.
Quote from: Cold Trigger Finger on January 22, 2016, 02:45:56 AMGain twist rifleing does help mitigate peak pressure. At least one of our 6.5 predessors ( the 6.5 Carcano) had gain twist rifleing. And from the records of ruptured cases and failures to extract , the 265 Mannlicher, could have used it also. With the powders of the day , even 2200fps with a 160 gr bullet under tropical conditions proved too much for the brass to handle.
In modern times , the 460 Smith and Wesson had to have gain twist rifleing to function in the XVR ,with safety and dependability.
There may well be others. Like the 454 Casul that could use it but FA went with a slow twist. There are no doubt others, but those come to mind.
I think all 6.5s should have gain twist rifleing . Just makes for a nicer transition from dead still to ?how many thousand rpm , in a split second. No wonder some bullets blow up in mid air .
+1 on the carcano and gain twist rifling. My dad has an old 6.5 carcano that i would like to get into reloading for him. Bartlein also offers a gain twist rifling for their barrels but i believe they call it their t-style rifling. Heard nothing but good things about it from the few people i have talked to that have shot them.
Great info in this thread!
Quote from: dadajack on January 22, 2016, 03:01:31 AMI think those thin jacketed varmint bullets blow up regardless of how fast you get them to their terminal RPM. Although, there could be some tearing of the jacket in the barrel from the rifling that compromises the integrity of the bullet. But, I think a 22-250 with a 35 grains varmint bullet will detonate outside the barrel with a fast enough twist even if you used polygonal rifling and gain twist if the rate is fast enough.
So, the twist rate can, indeed, influence peak pressure, but does that mean you retain the same muzzle velocity, or would the MV also drop enough to be statistically relevant to cartridge performance. Also, I wonder how fast we could get the 6.5 Creedmoor going safely witth a gain twist barrel? Could you imagine how much that barrel would cost? To go from 0-8" twist in 26" or less? I wonder if there is a minimum barrel length necessary to stabilize the bullet at the final twist rate. I mean, surely you can't just have one or two calibers of final twist rate at the end of the barrel and call it good, can you?
I didn't realize the 454 Casull could benefit from gain twist. I know it is high pressure, but... Aww hell. there I go again. Talk to you guys later.
I don't know. But I'm going to check out Bartlien's website.
Quote from: Denver Steve on February 06, 2016, 04:24:27 PM+1 on the carcano and gain twist rifling. My dad has an old 6.5 carcano that i would like to get into reloading for him. Bartlein also offers a gain twist rifling for their barrels but i believe they call it their t-style rifling. Heard nothing but good things about it from the few people i have talked to that have shot them.
Steve; thanks for the heads up on Bartlein
I just started reloading and there's no h4350 to be found I have 143eldx vanguard series 2 24 inch and I have imr 8208 xbr imr 4831 and H4831sc anyone have any load data on these powders with this projectile oh and neck sized
8208 XBR is a fastish powder for heavy bullets in the Creed. The 4831s will work . And may work well with the 143s . To 16 , 17, and 26 have been working well. IMR 4451 works well. Someguys have had good success with Win760/H414. But, they aren't all that temp stable.
What will you be using your rifle for.
Welcome to the Creedmoor forum !
IMR 4350 and Accurate 4350 also work well in the Creed
Imo I would concentrate on H4831 SC as it should be more temp stabil than the others. Beins it's one of the Extreme Extruded line of powders.
What is min and max for h4831sc as I can't seem to locate any data on 143 for that powder
Quote from: Mfiel58 on August 01, 2017, 11:41:58 PMWhat is min and max for h4831sc as I can't seem to locate any data on 143 for that powder
i dont have it for the 143 eld-x but hornady lists their lowest load 35.2 at 2300 fps and max load of 42.2 at 2650 fps for their new 147 grain eld bullet. so if you use that data to start you should be safe.
Out of the rel 16 And 4451 what's giving best accuracy and speed. ?
Shot with a Tikka T3X CTR 20" Barrel 1-8 Twist
Measured with a Magnetospeed V3
I am no professional and just got in to reloading and long range shooting. These were my first test loads. I found while shooting at 600 yds my grouping was tighter with 41gr of the IMR 4350. I put all 5 shots on a 6" plate at 600 yds. The first two series were 3 shots on the plate. It could have been me. I plan to load more 41gr and return to the range and see how they shoot. If anyone else has had any luck please share your load data. Thanks.
Series 1 Shots: 5 Powder IMR 4350
Min 2278 Max 2317 Bullet Berger 140 gr VLD Target
Avg 2297 S-D 15 Primer CCI BR2
ES 39 Grains 39
Series Shot Speed
1 1 2278 ft/s
1 2 2317 ft/s
1 3 2300 ft/s
1 4 2288 ft/s
1 5 2304 ft/s
---- ---- ---- ----
Series 2 Shots: 5 Powder IMR 4350
Min 2331 Max 2372 Bullet Berger 140 gr VLD Target
Avg 2349 S-D 15.3 Primer CCI BR2
ES 41 Grains 40
Series Shot Speed
2 1 2354 ft/s
2 2 2341 ft/s
2 3 2331 ft/s
2 4 2349 ft/s
2 5 2372 ft/s
---- ---- ---- ----
Series 3 Shots: 5 Powder IMR 4350
Min 2404 Max 2434 Bullet Berger 140 gr VLD Target
Avg 2419 S-D 13.6 Primer CCI BR2
ES 30 Grains 41
Series Shot Speed
3 1 2418 ft/s
3 2 2434 ft/s
3 3 2433 ft/s
3 4 2404 ft/s
3 5 2409 ft/s
Trey
You need to speed those loads up buddy. With a 140 grain bullet you should be in the 2660-2750 range depending on what your barrel likes. I'm running 42.3 grains RL16 in Lapua brass and pushing a 140 RDF at 2745. My SD is 5.5 and the ES is 15. That is good for me and my capabilities, but there are guys here who have even better numbers.
Sorta new to the forum but it would be very helpful to me (and I assume others) if some of these posted results were in Excel format. I know that I can copy and paste to transfer the data but that is opening up for a mistake.
Quote from: swampthang on August 09, 2017, 09:18:34 AMOut of the rel 16 And 4451 what's giving best accuracy and speed. ?
@swampthang RL-16 is going to be your favorite if you try both, in my experience.
Quote from: KnotRight on March 25, 2018, 11:43:47 AMSorta new to the forum but it would be very helpful to me (and I assume others) if some of these posted results were in Excel format. I know that I can copy and paste to transfer the data but that is opening up for a mistake.
Unfortunately there are those here that have no idea what a spread sheet looks like . And have no idea what Excel is.
Myself being first in that group.
If you would like to do this so we can see what your talking about. That would be Great !!
A spreadsheet has nothing to do with binders full of women, just for clarity's sake...
Quote from: TreyM662 on September 02, 2017, 04:08:09 PMShot with a Tikka T3X CTR 20" Barrel 1-8 Twist
Measured with a Magnetospeed V3
I am no professional and just got in to reloading and long range shooting. These were my first test loads. I found while shooting at 600 yds my grouping was tighter with 41gr of the IMR 4350. I put all 5 shots on a 6" plate at 600 yds. The first two series were 3 shots on the plate. It could have been me. I plan to load more 41gr and return to the range and see how they shoot. If anyone else has had any luck please share your load data. Thanks.
Series 1 Shots: 5 Powder IMR 4350
Min 2278 Max 2317 Bullet Berger 140 gr VLD Target
Avg 2297 S-D 15 Primer CCI BR2
ES 39 Grains 39
Series Shot Speed
1 1 2278 ft/s
1 2 2317 ft/s
1 3 2300 ft/s
1 4 2288 ft/s
1 5 2304 ft/s
---- ---- ---- ----
Series 2 Shots: 5 Powder IMR 4350
Min 2331 Max 2372 Bullet Berger 140 gr VLD Target
Avg 2349 S-D 15.3 Primer CCI BR2
ES 41 Grains 40
Series Shot Speed
2 1 2354 ft/s
2 2 2341 ft/s
2 3 2331 ft/s
2 4 2349 ft/s
2 5 2372 ft/s
---- ---- ---- ----
Series 3 Shots: 5 Powder IMR 4350
Min 2404 Max 2434 Bullet Berger 140 gr VLD Target
Avg 2419 S-D 13.6 Primer CCI BR2
ES 30 Grains 41
Series Shot Speed
3 1 2418 ft/s
3 2 2434 ft/s
3 3 2433 ft/s
3 4 2404 ft/s
3 5 2409 ft/s
With a 20 " barrel you are probably at a " low node" . As you increase the powder charge by smaller increment s , half grain powder charge increases . Your groups may scatter a bit then tighten up . That is what most of us have done.
It's great you starting low and slow and working up and documenting your results.
Someone asked for a spreadsheet so here it is.
Ran out of IMR4350 and was able to find some H4350 so working on those loads.
I can't get this file to open up.
Thanks.
Planning on using the 147 gr ELD Match Hornady with either the N560 or N550; anyone have any experience with this load ??? Could use all the help I can get!!!!!
coolbreeze