The Creedmoor Forum

Creedmoor Technical Info => Wildcats => Topic started by: Cold Trigger Finger on October 08, 2021, 09:12:14 AM

Title: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Cold Trigger Finger on October 08, 2021, 09:12:14 AM
 So. I'm getting a hankering for another carbine. But this one needs to have some Thump to it.
 I want a 338 - 375 cal bullet , at least 225 gr going at least 2650 fps. From a 16.5 " barrel.
 Built on a stainless Ruger M77 Mk2 or Hawkeye action.
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: jvw2008 on October 08, 2021, 09:13:51 AM
Sounds like a handy beast to pack along with you.
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Cold Trigger Finger on October 08, 2021, 11:00:41 AM
 That's the thing, my wife's Ruger Compact in 308 is the easiest thing in the world to have with. Trucks , 4 whlr , snowmachine or just packin it.
 Except it's a 30 caliber . I HATE 30 CALIBER RIFLES !!!  So , I don't take it with.
 Plus , it's not really a thumper.
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: jvw2008 on October 08, 2021, 12:42:18 PM
What weight would this rifle be. Thinking about the recoil.
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Cold Trigger Finger on October 08, 2021, 04:33:57 PM
With scope, around 8 lbs. Ide put a brake on it.
 The Ruger Frontier rifle in 358 Winchester was my first choice. But of course Ruger stopped making them.
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Denver Steve on October 08, 2021, 06:03:10 PM
Love my 338 rcm. 20" barrel. Stainless Ruger Hawkeye. Should be able to get the speeds you want with 225's in a 16.5" barrel. Reloder 16 or 26 will get you there. They will be a bit compressed. Speer has reload data up to 250 grain with modern powders. The only people who do. I emailed hornady they have just dropped the cartridge. I told the guy who emailed me to rename it a 338 prc because that's actually what it is.

I'm have ran the 265 accubond long range up to 2550fps. Settled for 2500. It's loaded as long as I can go and it's pretty compressed and a stout load to say the least. That massive, fairly high BC bullet does not slow down though. Literally only loses 110fps at 100 yards while still maintaining almost 3400 ft/lbs.

A 225 grain partition would be a very intimidating round. I am going to pick up some 250 grain round nose interlocks to play around with as well. It shoots the old 225 interlocks extremely well.

I got impressive speed with reloder 16 but the accuracy was with reloder 26. Way more compressed and I had to buy a different seating stem so I didn't wreck the bullets trying to seat them. Will be trying out some reloder 23 at some point as well down the road. Have had good luck with it in the creedmoor with the 160's.
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Cold Trigger Finger on October 08, 2021, 11:03:38 PM
I found a used Frontier rifle on Guns America in 358 Winchester. But the guy wants $1800.00 for it .
 If I can find a stainless 338 RCM , I'll get it and chop the barrel.
 I have a 26" barreled 338 Winchester mag. And I really like it.  But if the barrel is shortened to 20" it only gives 2500+ with a 250 gr. I had a Ruger Stainless that I traded into years ago . Someone had done that to it.
 I don't need to burn over 70 gr of powder to get 35 Whelen ballistics. That rifle was somewhat unpleasantly loud.
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Cold Trigger Finger on October 08, 2021, 11:42:15 PM
 So, that brings up a question. Can 338 RCM brass be made from PRC brass ?
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Denver Steve on October 09, 2021, 07:06:56 AM
Same parent case, so it should be able to be. 6.5 prc should be able to be necked up and need a slight trim. The 338rcm is basically just a necked up 6.5 prc.

If you used a 300prc or 375 Ruger case it would be alot of work. Be like turning a 30-06 case into a 338 federal.
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Cold Trigger Finger on October 09, 2021, 09:49:24 AM
 Steve; did you use a drop tube when you charged the cases with Rl26 ?
 
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Cold Trigger Finger on October 09, 2021, 10:07:56 AM
As to recoil. Since have mostly shot big rifles , 338 Win up to 500 A-Sq  but mostly 338 up to 458 Win. When I got my 6.5 Cm lack of recoil  changed how I shot. But. Torching off my Kimber Montana 338 with Fed High Energy 250 gr Partitions that I've chronographed at 2810 fps from 24 " barrels . And the Kimber has a 26" . It is a quite lively recoil !
 Recoil is subjective. For the job this rifle will have. Recoil isn't an issue as it will mainly be shot from standing , kneeling or sitting .
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Denver Steve on October 09, 2021, 11:26:23 AM
Steve; did you use a drop tube when you charged the cases with Rl26 ?

I tried with a drop tube and without. And tried the electric tooth brush as well. Slow pour out of the pan with a drop tube works pretty good. It's just a harder crunch when seating the bullet if you get the powder packed in there.
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Cold Trigger Finger on October 10, 2021, 02:10:54 AM
I checked out Speed Reloading Data online. It's Amazing how much of a bump up some of the new powders give.
 I was blown away by the 35 Whelen. Over 2700 fps with a 250 gr bullet.  Historically the 35 Whelen has produced 2500 fps for full power.
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: HufD63 on October 10, 2021, 09:38:57 AM
I checked out Speed Reloading Data online. It's Amazing how much of a bump up some of the new powders give.
 I was blown away by the 35 Whelen. Over 2700 fps with a 250 gr bullet.  Historically the 35 Whelen has produced 2500 fps for full power.

I agree and I doubt you'd have a problem with it but I think in some the guys who are shooting long strings, getting them hot or really pushing for the most fps are finding them hard on barrels.

In a 33 or 35 cartridge it's probably not near as big of deal compared to the 6 & 6.5s
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: jvw2008 on October 10, 2021, 10:21:08 AM
“Speed kills”regardless of the bore size. Push a 308 up into the 3000 fps range and the supposed 5000 round barrel life disappears.
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Cold Trigger Finger on October 10, 2021, 10:47:30 PM
 I'm going back and forth in my mind on which way to go.
 Since shortness of barrel is a priority.  I have been thinking about getting a 375 Ruger and chopping it down. Have an inch long muzzle brake put on and a 1 to 4 scope. And a Ching Sling.
 It may be overkill for some thing's. But I could probably get 2700 fps from a 250 gr TTSX bullet. Which would do nicely.
 As I already have dies and brass and ammo. That would be a savings .
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Denver Steve on October 10, 2021, 10:58:11 PM
Short barrel 375 gets my vote. It's on my "rifles I need to have" list.
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Cold Trigger Finger on October 11, 2021, 09:12:08 AM
Speer shows Rl 16 giving over 3,000 fps with a 270 gr bullet.
 That is with a 24" barrel, But that is still almost stupid fast. Even if it lost 45 fps per inch, that would still produce 2640 fps from a 16" barrel. With a 270 gr bullet, that's really good.
 
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Cold Trigger Finger on October 11, 2021, 11:13:10 PM
 Seems that 375 Ruger Guide Gun/Rifles and Alaskans in right hand are now made from unobtanium.
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Denver Steve on October 11, 2021, 11:34:11 PM
Seems that 375 Ruger Guide Gun/Rifles and Alaskans in right hand are now made from unobtanium.

Need to move to Canada. Quite a few Ruger m77's in most variants are available. Way cheaper for the left hand version though and way easier to find the left hand for some reason. Old stock I guess.
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: LeadHammer on October 13, 2021, 02:12:01 PM
Those things sound painful.  I have been shooting my Muzzleloader the last two days. Miss the little 6.5 recoil....or lack of.
250 grain SST's @ 2044fps.
One of those Guide guns or a big lever would be fun though.
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Cold Trigger Finger on October 14, 2021, 11:22:30 PM
Those things sound painful.  I have been shooting my Muzzleloader the last two days. Miss the little 6.5 recoil....or lack of.
250 grain SST's @ 2044fps.
One of those Guide guns or a big lever would be fun though.

  For some strange reason, Ruger attached tthe Guide Gun name to what they should have called the guide Rifle. 20" barreled M77 Mk 2 Hawkeye with laminate , adjustable lop stock with banded sling eye on the barrel, express sights and a muzzle brake or weight or thread protector.
 They really are a great rifle that is almost short enough.
 I don't regret trading the one I had for the 416 Remington built on a rebored 375 H&H , Interarms Whitworth Express and brush nickle plated. I Really like that rifle. But it has a 25+" barrel with the muzzle brake on it. And is peep sighted.
 It is a brown bear rifle !
 What I'm after now is a knock about large game Carbine. Similar to a Ruger Gunsight Scout . But in a serious cartridge.
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Cold Trigger Finger on October 14, 2021, 11:30:58 PM
Need to move to Canada. Quite a few Ruger m77's in most variants are available. Way cheaper for the left hand version though and way easier to find the left hand for some reason. Old stock I guess.

 There are lots of left hand 375 Ruger's available on GB and other sites.
 If this craziness would stop, Ruger could go back to making sporting rifles instead or every form of high cap sprayer ever thot up.
 It's a sad commentary that for the masses they need a long range basically , Target rifle to hit anything even at 200 yards.
 Anything under 400 as far as game shooting is the realm of normal , halfway accurate hunting rifles.
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: mnbogboy on October 15, 2021, 11:29:57 PM
With the blood thinners I've been taking the word "thump" scares me!
My shoulder is multicolored fromshopting  my 6.5-06 last week
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Cold Trigger Finger on October 17, 2021, 02:29:46 AM
Muzzle brake !
 The 375 Ruger Guide Gun with the muzzle brake on it was very easy shooting. Comparitivly speaking.
  As soon as I've spent another 10 grand on the house. Maybe I'll have enough for another rifle. But only after I get another couple bricks of large rifle magnum primers.
Title: Re: 338 RCM or 358/6.5 PRC
Post by: Cold Trigger Finger on October 20, 2021, 12:06:47 PM
I wonder how a 416/ 6.5 PRC would preform velocity wise with a 300 gr TSX bullet . From a 16.5 " barrel.
 That would be handy