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Annealers

I am looking at the AMP Mark 2 annealing machine or the Bench Source Annealing machine. Which do you prefer? Have experience with?

Jim Harris
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid". Sgt Stryker

Re: Annealers

Reply #1
Opinion Statement:

Experience with both and both are the top of the line in their mode of annealing - flame versus induction. The BenchSource is the most economical of the two and quite honestly I think there are some other flame annealers out there that might be even more cost effective - AnnealEze.
State of the art technology and I believe the best  consistency in results is the AMP. The choice probably depends on a guy’s objectives in reloading. If you have to have the best to erase any doubts in your mind about the end product, then it’s more money and it’s the AMP.


Re: Annealers

Reply #2
If you have any mechanical/electrical know-how, then you could build your own induction annealer for a fraction of the cost of an AMP. 
There are threads on both Accurate Shooter and Snipers Hide with details/guidance on building your own.  The cost depends greatly on how involved you want your machine to be (I personally am in the process of a rebuild of my machine to include an integrated case feeder).

Search for 'Induction brass annealer redux' on AccShooter and for 'Homemade Induction Annealer' on SH.

Re: Annealers

Reply #3
As an AMP owner I cannot deny a bias in my POV. Once AMP added their Aztec function which analyses a sacrificial case in order determine the ideal annealing profile, that made me feel a lot better about a relatively extravagant purchase, especially for a weekend warrior shooter.

That said, prior to the AMP I had a BenchSource flame annealer which I was happy with. After considering the risks involved with running a torch indoors, that gave me one more reason to replace it with the AMP. It is a fine piece of equipment though.

Considering current prices, the AMP is about $830 more than the BenchSouurce, either without any accessories, fuel etc. That's a steep delta which I think is worth it to me for reasons of comfort, convenience, confidence and safety. YMMV or course :)
Chris

Re: Annealers

Reply #4
For what it’s worth I only have owned one annealer which is the AMP.  It’s pricey for sure however so simple to use.  If you keep your cases “batched” it’s extremely consistent.  I did a couple of sacrificial cases in the same batch and it returned virtually the same setting. 

As eluded to a flamer probably wouldn’t be my choice.  So other than the $$$ I think the AMP is the ideal choice.  My 10 cents.
Roaneman

Re: Annealers

Reply #5
For me I would get the BenchSource, I like fire, and currently run my Wood EL Cheapo in the garage ( I use the plumbing already for the two torches ) with the window and door cracked but.... the best is probably the AMP.

Re: Annealers

Reply #6
I have an AMP with the AZTEC software.  I like the convenience of being able to get a solid numerical value for each specific case type and set the unit to that value and be done.  Drawbacks are the lack of automation that I had with the Annealeeze I owned prior to that.  I know plenty of very competitive national level shooters, including champions, that use gas annealers (among them Benchrest, or equivalents, are the most used).  If I had a more open area to anneal my brass I would likely sell my AMP and get a quality gas annealer; running several hundred cases in a sitting is a major PIA with my AMP.  With a properly set up gas unit I think one can get the cases annealed with enough consistency between cases to equalize performance.  This requires getting a gas flow that does not fluctuate and this requires a decent size tank and a quality regulator...but very doable.

As far as the very expensive autoloader for the AMP....not ready for prime time and way too costly IMO.  I base this off of experience of a friend who was an early adopter and sort of a beta tester.  It seemed to jam more than enough to deter me and he ended up with a lot of very dented case mouths.

Re: Annealers

Reply #7
No experience with the amp or bench source so cant input on them.. i do use an annealeez and have a 100% confidence in its ability to do the job it was built to do..
Grant

Re: Annealers

Reply #8
I'll 2nd the Annealeez, but if you demand the best (and have the $$) get the AMP. My only gripe is that I did not buy the Annealeez sooner.
Yes, I realize speling is a chalunge for sum of us...I am inkluded in that grup, so pleze fourgiv me. Ski-U-Mah!

Re: Annealers

Reply #9
Wondering where our OP went!

Re: Annealers

Reply #10
I wonder if instead of trying to build a feeder for an induction annealer (like the AMP MATE), build an induction annealer head for a successful feeder like the Annealeez has?

Just a thought. I agree with @rardoin the AMP is no speed demon, it's fine for a low volume shooter but I can see where it would become tedious for the high volume guys. 
Chris

 

Re: Annealers

Reply #11
I agree but maybe for different reasons. The actual appropriate heat transfer for the molecular transformation of the brass hardness is faster through induction then through the standard flame sources in our commercial flame annealers. I have not specifically measured time between the two systems so this may just be an impression on my part. The induction system is slow because of a frequently inadequate rapid cooling system for the chamber. Many of the home made systems do a better job of this than the AMP machine by iincluding a water instead of air cooling system.  The case feed system for the AMP could easily be geared or programmed to run much faster. I’m guessing it is intentionally slow to allow the air cooler system to have the needed time to do it’s protective job of the electronics.  Bottom line - if you are going to speed up the feed  in the AMP I think you also have to have a much better cooling mechanism for the chamber.

Re: Annealers

Reply #12
I don't think cooling is what slows down the AMP/AMP mate.  I can run cases in just under 6 seconds from pickup, place in the AMP, anneal, withdraw and dup in a pan; I run 10-11 per minute.  The AMP mate is a bit of a Rube-Goldberg device in its operation but, because the AMP was not designed to have an automation function when initially designed/produced I suppose it is the best they could do.  I think, if the mate could physically insert/withdraw cases faster the AMP could keep up....to a point.  I have had the unit go into a thermal shutdown only once (pre AZTEC) at about the 230 count point with 6.5 x55 cases.  It has not happened since the AZTEC upgrade.  One thing I find handy is having two case holders so one can be sitting in front of the window unit cooling off while the other is in use.  I get about 85-90 cases done before it gets too hot to handle :D .

Re: Annealers

Reply #13
No, I've not accepted a position with the AMP sales team, lol.

A person could double the AMP throughput by acquiring a second machine  :o.

Think of it as horizontal juggling  :))
Chris

Re: Annealers

Reply #14
I don't think cooling is what slows down the AMP/AMP mate.  I can run cases in just under 6 seconds from pickup, place in the AMP, anneal, withdraw and dup in a pan; I run 10-11 per minute.  The AMP mate is a bit of a Rube-Goldberg device in its operation but, because the AMP was not designed to have an automation function when initially designed/produced I suppose it is the best they could do.  I think, if the mate could physically insert/withdraw cases faster the AMP could keep up....to a point.  I have had the unit go into a thermal shutdown only once (pre AZTEC) at about the 230 count point with 6.5 x55 cases.  It has not happened since the AZTEC upgrade.  One thing I find handy is having two case holders so one can be sitting in front of the window unit cooling off while the other is in use.  I get about 85-90 cases done before it gets too hot to handle :D .

Interesting observation Robin that is pretty different from mine and I’m wondering if it has to do with the different case sizes we shoot. I also run the most current Aztec model but anneal almost exclusively the 6 BRA and 6Dasher cases. The anneal cycle for that small case is very short at may 1.5 seconds. I sit and cycle through cases at a rate that would triple the feed from one of AMPs attachments - based on videos of it that I have watched. I have had to teach myself to not be so efficient with my cycle feed because if I don’t my machine will go into multiple successive thermal shut downs. I will often cycle 200 cases at a time. Other possibilities may be a defect in my particular machine’s cooling - manufactured or induced by the way I have it set up for airflow.
So as usual we develop our thoughts on what we personally observe and thus my comments about cooling in the AMP system.
You’ve jiggled my thinking enough to do some physical rearrangement of mine to see if I can get rid of the frequent thermal shut downs.  Thanks 😊.

I do run that machine in an air conditioned room so my ambient room air is going to be around 70° F.