Ok so i'm building an ar10 chambered in 6.5 creedmore and wanted to see what y'all thought of my parts I've chosen. I want to go for accuracy but am concerned with previous posts about difficulty with reliability in 6.5
Receiver set- aero precision m5
stock- magpul PRS
Trigger- geissle (not sure on what one yet)
Rail- SLR
Bolt carrier- JP LMOS
Bolt- JP high pressure bold
Barrel- 24' proof research stainless steel CAMGAS
Gas block- sir adjustable
Buffer-AKTIVE anti tilt
Buffer spring- TUBB precision spring
My question is focused on the barrel. I'm having a hard time deciding between JP, rainier ultramatch, or proof camgas. I'm staying away from a blank turned by a gunsmith because I don't want the headache of finding a gunsmith to turn a barrel and all that.
For the fire control group, I would recommend the Geissele Hi-Speed National Match. You will pay a little more for it but will love it's greater adjustability and ultra crisp break (I own 3 and would not own anything else, but that's just my preference). If you can wait a little, you should be able to pick one up on sale. I would also recommend a full mass BC. Unless you really think you need a lighter BC I see little to no benefit (maybe faster follow-up shots) but I do not believe you will ever notice the difference even shoot 2 identical rifles but for different bolt carriers. The micro second (or 2) of lock-up time with a full mass BC will aid in the accuracy on an AR platform. I've owned a JP low mass BC, and although it functioned very reliablely, I saw NO advantage with it over a good full mass BCG. (You will save a little money in the process as well going with the full mass). I have experience with a JP and Rainier Ultramatch barrel and the Rainier UM shot just as well (tight groups) and was the less expensive option of the 2. Good choice on the PRS!!! Good Luck on Your New Creedmoor Build!
Had you considered JP's Silent Capture Spring? I have 4 (including my 2 AR 10 builds which have tungsten weights) and the rifles have always preformed flawlessly!! 8)
I'm really trying hard to keep cost down. That's why I went with the anti tilt buffer and flat spring. I have the silent captured for my ar9 and it's ok but adds a lot of unnessary weight.
I am no expert, but I am just finishing up a very similar build. I think any of the barrels you are looking at will do good. finding a smith to turn one isn't an issue, I see the problem being the cost and the amount of time you may end up waiting.
I think the geissele triggers are great. I have the ssa-e on my ar15 and the National match (I think that's what it's called) on my new 6.5 cm build. both are very good the national match can be a hassle to adjust, but not so bad.
Saving weight is an entirely different animal, the PRS stock is a real pig coming in at just a hair under 2 lbs. If that is high on your priority list, you might want to look at the LUTH-AR MBA-3 coming in at 18.5 oz. chromeski, what are you finding difficult as far as adjusting your Geissele HSNM trigger? I find them very easy to make adjustments to.
Quote from: Stugotz on November 01, 2017, 08:14:39 AMSaving weight is an entirely different animal, the PRS stock is a real pig coming in at just a hair under 2 lbs. If that is high on your priority list, you might want to look at the LUTH-AR MBA-3 coming in at 18.5 oz. chromeski, what are you finding difficult as far as adjusting your Geissele HSNM trigger? I find them very easy to make adjustments to.
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I may have worded that wrong, more difficult than a trigger that you just drop in and shoot. truth is I have done very little adjusting on mine. I installed it, turned down the pull weight a bit and that's it. I have been waiting until I finish my gun to see how it feels. I have just finished the gun, but waiting on scope mount. I fired 4 shots thru it with no sights yesterday, trigger feels good for now
I saw you cross posted on Snipershide as well, and I already provided feedback there. However, I will point you to my thread on this site. I went through a bunch of load development on my 6.5 CM rifle.
http://www.65creedmoor.com/index.php?topic=5345.0
If you are concerned about money, and want the best bang for the buck barrel out there, in my opinion it is the Ballistic Advantage 6.5 Creedmoor premium series. I got mine on a group by through Snipershide for under $200. And I couldn't be more pleased. When I am on my game, it shoots about .5 to .7 MOA 5-shot groups with my hand loads (occasionally sub- half moa) and I have also shot many .5 MOA 5-shot groups with factory Hornady 140 ELD-M ammo. I built a very similar rifle for my Dad back in 2015, and he wanted a Krieger barrel. So, we ordered it and waited many months for it. His rifle shoots about the same as mine. He only shoots factory ammo, so we haven't done any significant load development with it to squeeze out the extra potential. I have seen the 22 inch BA barrel on sale for around $200 from several places, and I want to buy another one for myself.
I will also recommend the LaRue MBT-2S trigger. It had been a fantastic trigger in my 6.5 CM. My Dad has a Geissele SSA-E in his 6.5 CM and I prefer the LaRue. I also have the Geissele Hi-Speed National Match in my CMP match rifle, and it doesn't hold a large advantage over the LaRue trigger. You can find the LaRue triggers on sale on most holidays for $99. I have 2 LaRue triggers and want to buy more for other rifles.
I will second the recommendation for a full mass bolt carrier. There are several options out there. D Wilson, WMD, Rubber City Armory are all good ones that aren't as expensive as the JP full mass carrier. I highly encourage you to get a HP bolt to add to the full mass carrier. JP would be my top choice there, with the Rubber City Armory a close second. I realize Aero Precision makes a HP bolt carrier group, but I have no experience with their bolts. I have a D. Wilson 308 bolt in my 308 AR, and its nice.
I realize that my thread I linked above may have dead links from Photobucket, so if you would like to see some targets I can post some up but have to get them transferred to Imgur.
Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to explain my reasons for my recommendations. I am not the only guy on this forum with a 6.5 CM AR, so stick around, there are a lot of good shooters here with great experience. ;D
Firstly, the Aero M5 is an LR308 compatible receiver, not AR10. That is an important thing to keep in mind for part compatibility.
If you are trying to save weight, the ACE Ultralight is a good stock. The LuthAR seem nice also but I have no personal experience with them. You can use sponge rubber to pad a simple stock for perfect cheek weld so you don't need heavy adjustable gizmos to make it fit right for you.
I've never heard of the buffer you mention but I'll second the suggestion of the JP silent captured spring, it should work with anything except folding stocks which I discovered when I decided to use a Law Tactical folder.
If you go for a stock that takes a carbine type buffer tube, the setup I am betting on uses an AR10/Vltor A5/POF 308 length buffer tube which is 3/4" longer than a standard AR15 carbine buffer tube but it let's you use a standard 3.25" AR15 style carbine buffer instead of a 2.5" shorty. This will give you a great variety of AR15 buffers to select from including reasonably priced standard, H1, H2 and H3 buffers. Vltor makes a nice buffer tube but the POF is inexpensive, I think both have an anti-tilt feature. I went with a POF tube.
I think the PRS has an "entry" length buffer tube which requires either the JP silent captured spring setup or a 2.5" shorty buffer.
p.s. I'm selling a new JP silent captured spring setup. If you're interested, check the classified section.
Rainier Arms also sells an HP bolt that you will a less for than the equivalent JP.
I for sure will be getting a high pressure bolt. You guys have me on a full mass bolt carrier for sure now. The BA barrel looks interesting as well. I'm considering the silent captured spring for sure. I just wasn't as impressed with the equivalent for my ar9. I think my bigggest problem is that I'm so wishy washy on barrel type mainly because I really would like a .5-3/4 moa gun. It does seem that a lot of people like the jp barrel and BA barrel.
Is it necessary to have a +2 barrel? The BA is just rifle length
You would want to go with a +2" barrel with something like a 26" pipe, possible even a 24", but for anything under that (22", 20") go with a rifle length gas system.
My Aero M5 build has a 24" BA barrel. Love it! Will shoot 5 shot groups .5-.75" And would be even better in more capable hands. If weight is a concern however, the BA heavy barrels might not be the best choice as they are HEAVY.
I have the Geissele SSA-E Trigger which is by far my favorite Trigger I've ever used though I have not tried the National Match others speak of.
Stock I have the Luth-AR MBA-1. This is a fantastic stock, easy to adjust and very sturdy.
BCG and buffer system I just went with general Aero parts. Rifle cycles and functions flawlessly.
That description is close to mine.
(http://i66.tinypic.com/2r5sq5z.jpg)
Rainer barrel has been great and I would purchase another readily.
Currently I have an AR Gold trigger in it that's really nice. I've had an SSA-E and SD-E in it too. I'm currently selling the SD-E on another site. Nothing wrong with it I'm just working on standardizing my triggers in my distance/ precision rigs. This weekend will provide some info on LaRue's MBT. I have placed one in my Grendel and will be trying it out this weekend.
I have a standard DPMS buffer and spring in it that has worked well. At some point I will be buying and placing a JP Silent in it to give it a try.
BCG is an Aero nitride with a standard bolt. No issues. Gas block is an SLR clamp and has worked well.
Last four rounds from my last range trip. These were American Gunner 140 gr BTHP.
(http://i65.tinypic.com/zu3xc1.jpg)
My first 6.5 Creedmoor used a 24" Criterion bull barrel that I bought for $200 on sale years ago and it's pretty close to a half MOA rifle at 100 yards. I only shot for a group at 100 yards once, on the day I did break in. After that I graduated to 1,000 yards where it is about 1.5 MOA because I suck at shooting with wind.
There are lots of good choices for a barrel and lots of debate between 22", 24" and 26".
Right now I'm working on an 18" because I want something lighter than my 24" bull. I'm sticking with Criterion because their 18" profile is pretty light without being a pencil profile.
My goal is to own the steel silouett range out to 800 yards or so. I don't need 1/2 MOA for that but I'll be disappointed if it's worse than 1 MOA.
If I had any complaint about the BA barrels, they are heavy. If I had to do it over again, I would consider getting the new fluted versions that BA has on their website. My rifle is primarily a target rifle, and since PA doesn't allow big game hunting with gas guns (for now), my 6.5 CM isn't really lugged around other than to the firing line and back to my car. For instance, on the 22 inch version, their fluting saves about 8 oz.
I will also say that in my experience, a +2 gas system isn't absolutely necessary. Sure, it would be nice, but as long as you use the full mass carrier and adjustable block, and don't really push the envelope with handloads, your brass should be fine. My rifle uses a std 308 DMPS rifle buffer, with the JP polished buffer spring. I admit, that early on when I was experimenting with 123 AMAX and Varget, I was pushing the brass a bit on the upper side of the charge weight range, and those pieces of brass now show signs of loose primer pockets. So, I am culling them from my stock pile. Since I've moved to the 140 ELD-M with IMR 4451, my brass comes out looking just fine and primer pockets are good to go.
How necessar is it to lap the contact surface of the upper receiver to match the barrrel extension lug?
I did not lap mine. Others with more knowledge may chime in.
Lapping an upper squares the front with the receiver bore. It can't hurt.
How much it helps depends on how bad your upper is and few are very bad.
Deleted, Thanks Flyer.