Alliant Powder 6.5 Creedmoor Reloading Data

[dadajack]

Not to mention using a load that should average 59K PSI. Average, not maximum. 

[graydigger525]

In this caliber, I suspect most would not sacrifice precision in favor of MV.  But will RL26 potentially deliver both? And what platforms will it be best suited in this caliber? 

QL indicates that a powder charge of ~ 46.0 gr. RL26 in my rifles will provide similar MV to 42.0 gr. H4350, at a similar average pressure. Although slower than H4350, QL predicts 100% propellant burn with RL26 in a 24" barrel.

What average pressures are you comfortable with in your chamber?  Does RL26 have a future as an alternative to H4350?

I dont' internet much, so this forum is a great opportunity to learn from others.

[bowfishn]

QL shows quite a bit different for my Rifle with 6.5 Creed 26" barrel using Nosler Brass 52.70 H2O 140 RDF bullets BR2 primers coal 2.850"  43 gr H4350  QL shows  101.4% fill 99.32% burn  vel of 2810 fps @  58,901 psi. (my actual vel was 2839 fps)
Using same bullet, brass, primer and coal  46.5 gr RL26  QL shows  99.8% fill 99.9% powder burn   vel of 2822 fps @ 48,362 psi (my actual vel was 2846 fps)
So for me it got the same velocity with 3.5 grains more but less case fill and 10,000 psi less pressure.
It's already way ahead as far as I am concerned.

[dadajack]

There's really only one way to push a 140 grain projectile over 2800 without attaining an average pressure that is at least as close to maximum average pressure most cases will handle reliably. Then, throw in the variability caused by carbon ring formations, copper buildup, how long you leave the cartridge in the chamber of a hot barrel before squeezing it off.... I've fired many 140 A-MAX projectile at 2890 FPS using Hybrid 100V in a tight bore Savage 12 LRP. It worked, but it wasn't the best way to do it. My 7mm08 will shoot 162 ELD-M projectiles over 2900 fps without visible pressure signs, but I know it is over max, even with the extended OAL (2.940" OAL) and proper powder. So, I backed it off to 2875, and my last range trip with 80 degree averages started to show some brass flow, albeit, barely noticeable. I'll work with RL-16 based on @Danbonzo 's findings with it in the 6.5 Creed. We'll see if it retires me from RL-17 indefinitely.

My basic point is this: You cannot force the laws of physics to bend to your will simply because you don't see them in action. They WILL eventually rear their ugly little immovable heads and bite you square in the ass, or brass at a bare minimum.

Stay safe

[graydigger525]

Dadajack, looking forward to what you find with the RL16.  Seems to be a very small window where pressures and velocities are happy.  Would be very interested to see how things go as temps increase this summer.  Thanks for your posts.

The only game I play in this caliber is slow fire long distance varmint shooting, so I never run a barrel hot.  The priority is a first round hit, so I'll sacrifice precision over MV any day.

[bowfishn]

My 6.5 Creedmoor shot 143 ELD-X at 3054 fps without visible signs of pressure as well, but according to QL it was over pressure. Signs of pressure do not always show up until it is in the 70K region, QL shows 70538 to get the speed I was getting with 49 gr. of RL26.,
That is why I have settled on 48.5 gr with the 143 ELD-X using HBN coated, it will give me 2990 fps at under 59K , no worries.
Anyone who has worked with the RL26 in these overbore cartridges knows it will gain the speed with out going over pressure.
Berger shows it with their 135 Classic Hunter with 49.7 gr and 2977 fps out of a 24" tube almost 100 fps faster than any other powder they list. (by the way that agrees with QL figures on the same load)
Not defying Physics it is just Physics at work. If it was peak pressure only that determined velocity than we could expect the same velocity with all powders.
Also check out Alliants site you will see RL26 will push 100 gr bullets out of a 243 at over 3200 fps and stay within safe pressures out of a 24" tube.
RL26 is also showing to be quite temp stable out of these 6.5s as well check out:
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f28/reloder-26-a-172482/index17.html
RL16 is good powder just don't expect the same velocities out of your Creedmoor that you get out ofRL26 without going over Pressure. It will get within 50 fps.

[Cold Trigger Finger]

 RL 26 is looking very promising. . Some of you guys are getting old fashion 264 Winchester velocities and 270 Winchester velocities . From the 6.5 Creedmoor. Thats guite impressive .
 Bowfishn; looks like HBN is working very well for you. Thats great ! I love the stuff , but I'm not known for precision. Next time I'm in town I'll look for a big jug of Rl26. Then I'll be able to use my H4350 in my 9.3×64 . that will be good.

[pjogrinc]

Well, finally got a chance to get to the range and try some more RL16 loads.

Here's my target, a continuation of the first.

Now to load 20 more of the 42.4 load and try them at 3, 4, 5, 600 yards!

[rardoin]

Well, finally got a chance to get to the range and try some more RL16 loads.

Here's my target, a continuation of the first.

Now to load 20 more of the 42.4 load and try them at 3, 4, 5, 600 yards!

42.7 looks more centered in a node.  I would load several 3 shot groups at that charge varying seating depths.  Perhaps start at 0.010" off lands and test at 0.005" increments further off....to 0.025".  Three shot groups are all you need to find the sweet spot so you will only need to burn 15 shots down your tube.

[jvw2008]

Well, finally got a chance to get to the range and try some more RL16 loads.

Here's my target, a continuation of the first.

Now to load 20 more of the 42.4 load and try them at 3, 4, 5, 600 yards!

Why the jump from 41.7 to 42.4?

[Danbonzo]

42.7 looks more centered in a node.  I would load several 3 shot groups at that charge varying seating depths.  Perhaps start at 0.010" off lands and test at 0.005" increments further off....to 0.025".  Three shot groups are all you need to find the sweet spot so you will only need to burn 15 shots down your tube.

Barking it damn hard tho for a 139.
I fear guys are overlooking the extra velocity that RE16 affords them without considering the possible ramifications.
Be smart is all gents.
Dan 

[graydigger525]

(Would echo Dan's concerns regarding pressures and RL-16!)

HBN - very interesting!  Thank you bowfishin.

I'm pretty much wrapped up load dev with RL-26, thought I'd post to the group if anyone is interested. 

Calibrated QL Ba for this lot of RL-26 is 0.370, near exact correlation with LabRadar MVs between 60-95 deg F. Chamber pressures max 64K psi (42.0 H4350 calculates to 60K). Precision equal or superior to my best H4350 loads (~0.3 moa @300), but making 2975 @85 deg F, sd 9 over 15 shots. Happily, no POI shift with/without TBAC 7". Attaching drop DOPE (mils) obtained this past weekend out to 800 with the TBAC.  The external ballistics with pointed 140 Berger VLD-Hs are pretty skookum. 1000 ft-lb energy at 1100 yds. Theoretically goes transonic in the desert at at 1750 yds (?!?!) Weather permitting, I hope to get 1000, 1250, 1450, and 1800 yd DOPE in the next couple of weeks, curious to see if the regression curve holds up.

[pjogrinc]

Why the jump from 41.7 to 42.4?

Already ran loads, post #24, and tried some in-between promising points for comparison.

[pjogrinc]

Barking it damn hard tho for a 139.
I fear guys are overlooking the extra velocity that RE16 affords them without considering the possible ramifications.
Be smart is all gents.
Dan 

1st  My gun shoots about 125 FPS faster than what others are getting, but that's is just my gun.  2 other local guns, one Ruger PRS and a custom build 6.5 CM both get lower velocities than what I get out of my MPA 6.5BA.  These where with the 39.7 grain loads of the first target.  Brought some extra rounds to let them try a couple and to settle barrel after shooting Nosler Match 6.5 ammo in a match the previous weekend.

43.5 puts me almost at 3,000 FPS, with sub 1 MOA OUT OF MY GUN, BUT I do not have any plans on loading up there in the 6.5-284 velocity range.  Case head expansion was + 0.002, neck expansion was + 0.002 and case length growth +0.003 over an unfired new Nosler brass and about the same expansion in the case neck and base, primer crater is 0.001 - 0.002, but much less case length growth, -0.007-8 over a Nosler Custom Match 140 gr factory load.  My gun craters most factory Nosler Custom match rounds, nature on my beast, I guess.

[Cold Trigger Finger]

(Would echo Dan's concerns regarding pressures and RL-16!)

HBN - very interesting!  Thank you bowfishin.

I'm pretty much wrapped up load dev with RL-26, thought I'd post to the group if anyone is interested. 

Calibrated QL Ba for this lot of RL-26 is 0.370, near exact correlation with LabRadar MVs between 60-95 deg F. Chamber pressures max 64K psi (42.0 H4350 calculates to 60K). Precision equal or superior to my best H4350 loads (~0.3 moa @300), but making 2975 @85 deg F, sd 9 over 15 shots. Happily, no POI shift with/without TBAC 7". Attaching drop DOPE (mils) obtained this past weekend out to 800 with the TBAC.  The external ballistics with pointed 140 Berger VLD-Hs are pretty skookum. 1000 ft-lb energy at 1100 yds. Theoretically goes transonic in the desert at at 1750 yds (?!?!) Weather permitting, I hope to get 1000, 1250, 1450, and 1800 yd DOPE in the next couple of weeks, curious to see if the regression curve holds up.

 Your one of the few on here that knows what Skookum means ;-)