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Topic: Disappointed in the 6.5 prc (Read 521 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Disappointed in the 6.5 prc

Reply #15
Stugotz the rl 16 is a great powder for the 6.5 creedmoors.. my problem is really two fold with the 6.5prc. Using a hot burning powder in a overbore cartridge.. and also having to run a huge jump to the lands to fit the magazine allows some of them initial super hot gases to escape around the bullet blasting the lands before the bullet engages them and sealing the bore. Im a big fan of the rl powders.. use them in about everything i shoot with no issues except in the prc.. i use rl26 in my 300 win mag and it does great in it and the barrel is holding up really good.. i have some of the new rl15.5 inbound to try in my dasher.. excited about that..
Grant

Re: Disappointed in the 6.5 prc

Reply #16
I agree with Grant. Alliant powders are a great powder.
The RL16 will not burn barrels out faster.
It's all dependent on how much powder and if it's overbore.
The 6.5 creed is not a "large" case and the .264 bore isn't restricting
as others. I use RL16 in my 6.5 creed and 6 creed. Excellent powder.
Just keep up on the carbon.

Re: Disappointed in the 6.5 prc

Reply #17
Thx Guys. I guess after reading the thread a flag went up in my mind wondering if all of the Alliant RL series powders burned generally hotter. Gman, it makes sense about deep seated bullet and hot gasses jetting by the bullet before engaging the lands.   8)
Yes, I realize speling is a chalunge for sum of us...I am inkluded in that grup, so pleze fourgiv me. Ski-U-Mah!

Re: Disappointed in the 6.5 prc

Reply #18
There is no way an excessive amount of gas is going to hit your lands ahead of the bullet unless you are using a case with a neck so short that the bullet clears the case before it engages the lands. I’m saying your seating depth is irrelevant IMO. This is STICTLY  an over bore problem with a hot powder that is frying metal as it pushes against the resistance of the bullet to pass through the bore. The gas is behind the bullet, not in front of it. If your theory was correct, throat erosion would be cut in half by jamming all Bullets instead of jumping them and we all know that is not true.
There! It’s been three weeks. I’m back with my argumentative self  😊

Re: Disappointed in the 6.5 prc

Reply #19
Great to have you back Jerry @jvw2008  glad you're feeling better! I agree with your statement as well.

I've read RL 16 is a hotter powder as well and without experience with it in the Creedmoor case I can only predict with the extra speed it would be capable of accelerated barrel wear as well but this is possibly where the case size and charge weight come into play and make it not as bad as in an overbore cartridge.

If a person were to run a Creedmoor in a higher node as the RL 16 is likely capable of you would definitely get accelerated wear over an H4350 load. If a person is using ANY powder to get more fps over what used to be the top end on older powders they're likely getting accelerated barrel wear.

Dave

Re: Disappointed in the 6.5 prc

Reply #20
Glad to see you back jerry.. i dissagree with that statement  somewhat.. yes the majority of it is going to be behind the bullet.. yes its a overbore cartridge with a hot powder.. however its my opinion that soon as that powder ignites the mouth opens up on the case and the bullet starts to move.. soon as that mouth opens the neck is sealed and that gas is going forward.. if theirs 3 or 4 thousands neck clearance around the bullet when it opens some of that gas has a chance and is more than likely out running the bullet for a split second before the bullet seals itself.. watching a eric cortana and jack neary video about the cause of throat erosion agrees with this when jumping a bullet really long. +.150.. but yes alot of it is due to being overbore and a hot powder..

As far as rl16 goes i use it with some 140 eldms in one of my 6.5 creedmoors.. the barrel doesnt get any hotter any quicker with it than it does with h4350.. and i dont think your going to gain any more speed with rl16 over h4350 either.. at least i never have..
Grant

Re: Disappointed in the 6.5 prc

Reply #21
I don’t believe you are thinking your way through this correctly Grant. Think about neck tension versus bullet movement. As the pressure in the case builds enough to expand the neck, neck tension is progressively decreasing. There is already a large volume of pressure pushing the bullet forward. There is a well documented military study that indicates bullet movement immediately occurs with primer detonation and before powder ignition. As powder ignition occurs there is a huge column of hot gases that does escape around the bullet through the expanding neck as you indicated, but that bullet is already locking into the rifling.
Eric C and Mr Jack Neary are famous shooters who are making a living of their shooting exploits. They are NOT experts on internal ballistics! They do help us tremendously by relating their experiences and observations, but I don’t believe any of their theories have true scientific documentation. Don’t get me wrong. I do respect their findings and willingness to share their thoughts. But I sure don’t take what they say as gospel. And I definitely do not set myself up as an authority on this subject although I have studied it intensively.
I will go back to my original statement. Show me a controlled study of that says jumping bullets accelerates throat wear when all other variables are control. I’ve looked for it and haven’t found it. Maybe it’s out there and if it is and it supports your statement I will take it as a new learning experience.

Guess I would just like to get you to admit you are expressing an opinion and not a fact you can prove.

Re: Disappointed in the 6.5 prc

Reply #22
That is correct jerry i am expressing an opinion..  just like we all do about most things.. the only way i could prove my opinion would be to continue using rl26 in my prc and instead of jumping the bullet a mile to fit my mag would be to single load it with a jam and see if i got more than 600 rounds out of it.. but for me knowing what has happened to the other 2 barrels im going to take a different route and use a different powder..
Grant

Re: Disappointed in the 6.5 prc

Reply #23
https://youtu.be/zbtyaKAMDdk

In these slow motion shots looks to me like alot of gases out ahead of the bullets.
Grant

Re: Disappointed in the 6.5 prc

Reply #24
Yep. With all the hot stuff behind it and the non-flame gases ahead of it  😊

Your a good guy Grant. It’s always fun for us to see who can be the most stubborn. Think we’ve discussed this before. 😊

Re: Disappointed in the 6.5 prc

Reply #25
My 2 cents on this discussion.  I align more with Jerry regarding hot gases not getting in front of the bullet.  I seem to remember from some of the QL studies I did, that the bullet has moved quite a ways before significant pressure has been built behind it.  So it is fully engaged into the barrel when the peak pressures are reached.  But the bullet is not a perfect seal and so there will be some gases that pass the bullet as it travels down the barrel which are then expelled ahead of the bullet, which is generating some pressure of its own as it accelerates.  Just my option..... ;)
Bob
If everything seems under control......you're just not going fast enough

Re: Disappointed in the 6.5 prc

Reply #26
Think that’s a good assessment. It always frustrates  me how much more definitive facts we have regarding external ballistics than we do relative to the internal physics. Yes, the internal events are harder to measure but it just seems we should have the technology to clarify the events much better. I keep thinking I just haven’t found the right sources yet to have a better understanding.

Re: Disappointed in the 6.5 prc

Reply #27
With my belly healing and getting better everyday i felt like doing a few things today.. one was to fire up the old wd45 and do some mowing i do with a finish mower.. the old tractor putts around pretty slow and is a pretty soft ride so that all went good.. then this evening i decided to do a velocity ladder i had loaded for this prc and did.. still got some work to do on it but im getting close .. hopefully get it sorted out tomorrow  .. little to much vertical in my group even though i didnt feel like i shot it very well..
Grant

Re: Disappointed in the 6.5 prc

Reply #28
Guess i should post the group.. lol
Grant