The Creedmoor Forum

Service is horrible here so if anyone's interested follow along in the linked thread.
Page 4 has is the start of the results.
Day 1 is in the books, 4 targets at 600 and two at 1000.
Tomorrow is 4 at a thou and 2 at 600
Saturday is 2 each at a thou & 600

After it's all agged the top 14 shoot off down to 7 then the seven shoot for winner take all.

I'm having a good match. Staying where I'm at will be the hard part I think.

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/2022-rendezvous-2-0-gene-ford-memorial.4055014/page-4#post-38381716

Eric with the light gun group win.

As usual the wind was a factor today.
I was a close second to Eric in LG group after 2 targets but 3 & 4 kinda got away from me.

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/berger-6mm-105-hybrids.4067762/

Can't believe they made it to page 2 as bad as everyone says they want them.

Haven't seen him post in a while hope all is good!

Going to the dark side here LOL

Curious to hear what anyone is doing in regards to primer seating BESIDES just pushing them in until they bottom out.

There are serious shooters who believe primer seating to bottomed out in the pocket + a certain amount of crush or preload on the primer assembly has a tuning/timing effect much like timing a trigger to a reciever/bolt assembly or even like a powder or seating ladder and in fact use the same ladders to identify the sweet spot in primer crush or preload.
If your primer is not at least touching the bottom of the pocket there's a good chance it will seat deeper under the fall of the firing pin which will at the very least give a weaker strike to the cup. If the primer is bottomed but the anvil is not at least touching the bottom of the pocket that too could affect the strength of the pin strike.

There are a few new tools out that claim to be able to seat a primer to an exact depth and apply a measurable amount of crush or preload.
What I've experienced is until you can measure the pocket accurately you are still basically guessing and until your pockets are uniformed again you are basically guessing.
In other words you may think you are getting repeatable numbers but are likely not.
Even a tool that measures application in .001"s is very susceptible to friction from variations in the pocket or the primer itself. The primer cup itself will yield from varying sidewall friction.

All the pockets I've measured tend to measure very different in depth at the center or flash hole than around the perimeter of the pocket hole on bottom. With a caliper it's easy to measure the center but up along the wall not so much.
Alpha brass appears to have a cone shaped pocket, a uniformer will cut brass off the sidewalls shortly after entry, Lapua is less tapered.
The Alpha brass is noticeably harder making uniforming noticeably harder.

Obviously you can't put together a test without being able to get repeatable measurements on primers and primer pocket depth and you can't get repeatable seating in pockets that aren't consistent. You also can't repeatably seat beyond bottomed if you can't measure that.

The Lapua brass I've worked with is fairly easy to feel a very noticeable "bottomed out" feel even before uniforming the pocket.
The Alpha brass is often hard to feel the "bottomed out" primer. It's better after uniforming but still not as consistent as the Lapua.

Once you can feel a definite bottom you can apply tension measurable in .001"s to set the preload, or tension or crush on the anvil. Many people are calling it crush but without being able to see and measure whats going on inside the pocket there is no way to know exactly how much actual anvil crush is obtained.
Using measurable tension is what it is but there is still the variance of the pocket. Ununiformed is a lot and I suspect even uniformed pockets have some but not nearly as much. There has to be a friction loss as well as tool deflection loss that keeps what you read on the indicator from being 100% linear to the movement of the primer.
The primers themselves are very hard to measure and have their share of inconsistencies. For thickness you can line up off the anvil to measure the cup or measure on the anvil to obtain overall thickness but you can see with the naked eye anvil protrusion varies from primer to primer.
Nobody including me wants to sort primers dimensionally so that puts it back to applying a measurable amount of tension on a bottomed out primer to increase the odds of getting them more consistent than just bottoming them out and giving them an extra squeeze.

Setting primers to .003" below flush means nothing if the pockets aren't  uniform and there is variance in the primers themselves. Many times we think what we're doing is repeatable when it's not.

Like I said up top I'm curious to hear thoughts from the thinkers 😁 here.

Conditions were less than great but I had a good day in spite of it.

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/attachments/deep-creek-match-3-hg-results-pdf.1332339/

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/attachments/deep-creek-match-3-lg-results-pdf.1332340/

Been wanting one for quite awhile. Picked up a like new at a good price.

Haven't had time to use it but it feels very nice!

https://ibb.co/vBKmkxz

Custom built by Curt Knit @ CTK Precision

Curt is a LR shooter as well, his website is

www.ctkprecision.com

He built it to accommodate my 6" fore end Panda and I can't wait to get my hands on it. It's milled on bottom to quick tach to my Randolph rest

Midway showing CCI 400s in stock

Managed a "50" that measured 1.442" was highest score and smallest LG group today.

Think I wound up 2nd in LG group & 3rd overall
HG was pretty miserable LOL but I finished 4th in group and 6th overall in Two Gun.

20 shooters today, SD State Match tomorrow.

This is a JJ Loh front rest I'm the second owner but was unused by the first.

They're no longer made as the maker John Loh passed on. I changed out the brass speed screw for a Field & Cave Precision screw.

I'll be testing it this afternoon.

Results from Elbow Lake MN last weekend.

Steve Hoskin 2020 and defending IBS 600 yard Shooter of the year continues to show why he's the current Shooter of the Year ?

Kace Oscarson is a rookie junior I'd guess to be 12 years old shot in match 6 which was the MN State Championship. I'm going to say he'll be a handful for years to come.

https://internationalbenchrest.com/app/ibs/files-module/local/documents/Grant%20County%20Match%20-4%20081421.pdf

https://internationalbenchrest.com/app/ibs/files-module/local/documents/Grant%20County%20Match%20-5%20081421.pdf

https://internationalbenchrest.com/app/ibs/files-module/local/documents/Grant%20County%20Match%20-6%20081521.pdf

I've had better outings but I managed to win a little and shot well for score alot of the weekend.

Thought I'd share this ladder with you guys, I learned a lesson this evening. It's one of those lessons I think we all learn over and over again ?

When something's not giving the desired results change something. With the limited tuning time I have nowadays I kept thinking I just hadn't quite found the tune with either gun. 1500 rounds through the 47L improved, 1100 rounds through the BRA and no big wins and a couple groups in the 1"s and most of my better finishes have come in score not group.

After my last match I came home with the intentions of swapping both barrels. I put the 6 BRA 7.25 twist Brux back on the Panda and was going to put the 3 groove 8 twist Lilja BRA back on the Borden but instead decided to switch powder lots and bullets and keep running the 4 groove 8 twist Lilja.

So the Panda / Brux 6 BRA shot decent with the 106 Roy's maybe a tenth off on powder and a thou or two off on seating. I think it will get back to shooting small with minimal testing.

The Borden / Lilja 4 groove I loaded up with Roy Hunter 103As and a lot of H4895 left over from 2018 in leftover sized brass from last August at the 600 Nationals.

The whole ladder was 2.1" wide x 2.4" tall, pretty sure it's gonna work LOL

Anyway here's the pic, I think I'll go .2 lower to 29.7 and work back up to 30.1 to see where it comes in and see if it repeats.

Jerry shot small and steady through a week of brutal heat and even worse humidity.

Eased into the top 14 shoot off handily beating the 2018 1000 yard Nationals Champion then finished 5th in the Super 7 Showdown.

Modest and humble from start to finish, a true winner and a great friend.

Proud of you @jvw2008

3 new IBS world records in MT Sunday

I'll drop the AS link here

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/deep-creek-1000-yard-match-8-2-695-hg-group.4039470/

Glen Kulzer is a class act, well deserving of these records. He is the guy who set me up and showed me the ropes on the Club gun back in 2018 and helped get me started In BR shooting.

These just posted to the IBS website this morning.

Glen Sterling Jr won HG at the 2020 600 yard Nationals.
Glen was shooting a new LG he built with a barrel block like you see on a true HG

Mike McBrid is a very tough competitor, he seems to run a tune that shoots extremely small or blows up.

Mike wrote the scoring program that most of not all clubs use for IBS 600 yard competitions

The wind blew 2 of my shots off and DQ'd me in LG, I fared pretty decent in HG for my first 600 yd match since August.

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/western-colorado-600-yard-ibs-april-2021-match-report.4034923/

Business as usual for ol' Jerry.

Match 1

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/attachments/deep-creek-match-1-hg-results-pdf.1245014/

https://forum.accurateshooter.com/attachments/deep-creek-match-1-lg-results-pdf.1245015/

This topic has been moved to Wanted - https://www.65creedmoor.com/index.php?topic=12266.0 wanted so it stays closer to the top, easier to find.