Alliant Powder 6.5 Creedmoor Reloading Data

[Deadshot2]

I see you're from Louisiana also .  Then again, you did not mention having to carry a sidearm to fend off the mosquitos .  Third F-class match this year cancelled due to water in the pits .

Actually, I'm from the "Upper Left Corner" of the US, emphasis on "Left".   Not just geographically on the Left but politically as well, at least in Seattle.

I was raised here from around age 4 so I escaped the genetic mutation many of those born here have, "webbed feet".    We may not get as much rain as some places do at one time but we get it pretty much all year long.   The 300 yard target line at our club range was partially buried in a mudslide triggered by record rains in one month.

I have underground drainage pipe in my back yard that is currently flowing like a small creek.   It will do this pretty much 9-10 months out of the year.   I have to buy Moss Killer in bulk, applying it several times a year.   Of course then I have to add lime regularly to even the ph after the moss killer "sours" the soil.    When I add the lime my yard looks like a flour mill exploded. 

Only good news in this is that it rarely goes below zero and if it does it's only overnight on a day or two.  Summer might go into the 90's for a week or so total.   The rest of the time it's great shooting weather  

As for carrying firearms up here, our State Constitution clarified the issue from the beginning, that it's an individual right.   Some up here even Open Carry just to p!$$ off the Liberals.   Perfectly legal and Concealed permits are "Shall Issue".

[Cold Trigger Finger]

 Yup, warshington , on the peninsula it rains pretty good.  Used to be a good place if a guy was a timber cutter or logger. . Now a days tho its just kindof a wet California. Except, fewer gun restrictions at this time.  Best thing about Washington is Bellingham. Ya can get on a ship there that has 8 stars of gold on a field of blue and go home . or Sea Tac and get on a plane with an Eskimo on the tail and get home faster.  ;-)

[bowfishn]

Well I tested out the 130 JLK bullets with RL26 and my barrel doesn't like them. Had a node at 48.5 - 49.4 grains of RL26 that looked promising, SD went down to 4 fps at 49 gr. with 10 fps SD at each end of the node. The groups were not great .750" to 1" 5 shots at 100, the 49 gr being the smallest group, POI was the same from 48.5 - 49.4 gr. I was .020" off lands so I loaded 5 each at 49 and 48.8 gr RL26 at .010" and .030" and tried them to see if they would tighten up, would get 3 to 4 out of the group almost through same hole and then 1 or 2 scattered. 48.2 liked it closer and 49 liked it farther away. I will do one more test .040" from lands and Jamming the lands, we will see. I also shot my 143 ELD-X bullets just to see if they were still good and 5 shots gave me one ragged hole, so I figure it must be It just doesn't like JLKs, I measured the diameter of the JLKs and the Hornadys, the JLKs were .2639" and the Hornadys are .2642" .
It could be I have an oversize bore and the larger diameter bullet shoots better, I questioned that when using H4350 because my loads were much slower than most everyone else that used H4350.
Not slamming JLK bullets they are very consistent in weight and length, but they do not work for what I want.

[yukonmike]

I am new to this forum and enjoy the level of the conversation I've seen regarding RL16.  I have been using RL17 for the past few months and recently rechecked my MV out of a Bartlein 28" Heavy Varmint barrel using Lapua brass with CCI450 small primer, Sierra Match King 142gr.  With 41.1 grains I was getting an average of 2850 fps.  Looking at the loads tested above, it looks like scary territory for me.  I might start with a trial round below what I am currently using in RL17 and post the results.  A recent MV check with RL17 at about 90 degrees boosted my speed to close to 2900 with some going past.  No signs of pressure, but I really don't need the velocity along with the potential wear and tear on the barrel.

[bowfishn]

I am new to this forum and enjoy the level of the conversation I've seen regarding RL16.  I have been using RL17 for the past few months and recently rechecked my MV out of a Bartlein 28" Heavy Varmint barrel using Lapua brass with CCI450 small primer, Sierra Match King 142gr.  With 41.1 grains I was getting an average of 2850 fps.  Looking at the loads tested above, it looks like scary territory for me.  I might start with a trial round below what I am currently using in RL17 and post the results.  A recent MV check with RL17 at about 90 degrees boosted my speed to close to 2900 with some going past.  No signs of pressure, but I really don't need the velocity along with the potential wear and tear on the barrel.

Loads listed above are with RL26

[Ed]

Actually, I'm from the "Upper Left Corner" of the US, emphasis on "Left".  Not just geographically on the Left but politically as well, at least in Seattle.

I was raised here from around age 4 so I escaped the genetic mutation many of those born here have, "webbed feet".    We may not get as much rain as some places do at one time but we get it pretty much all year long.  The 300 yard target line at our club range was partially buried in a mudslide triggered by record rains in one month.

I have underground drainage pipe in my back yard that is currently flowing like a small creek.  It will do this pretty much 9-10 months out of the year.  I have to buy Moss Killer in bulk, applying it several times a year.  Of course then I have to add lime regularly to even the ph after the moss killer "sours" the soil.    When I add the lime my yard looks like a flour mill exploded. 

Only good news in this is that it rarely goes below zero and if it does it's only overnight on a day or two.  Summer might go into the 90's for a week or so total.  The rest of the time it's great shooting weather  

As for carrying firearms up here, our State Constitution clarified the issue from the beginning, that it's an individual right.  Some up here even Open Carry just to p!$$ off the Liberals.  Perfectly legal and Concealed permits are "Shall Issue".

Left coast here also. In my shooting bag is plastic dividers I put my targets in to shoot in the rain. Rain keeps the crowds down at the range. Barrels rarely overheat. Everything is green and the air is clean. The rest of ya have to be jealous.

[Red Fox 1217]

Got H4350 from reloader unlimited yesterday. It lasted about 20 mins and was sold out

[Silentfun65]

I just loaded up 10 rounds of RL26 to do a ladder test on tomorrow with the 147gr ELD. Thanks for all the information in this thread.  H4350 gives me 2800 at 42.4 gr out of my 24" barrel with suppressor. Looking forward to seeing how this powder measures up.

[Luv2Jeep]

I just worked up a load for my new Savage Ashbury using IMR 4451 for the first time since I couldn't score any H4350.  I was very impressed with the low SDs/ ESs for the various loads I tested.  Speeds were from mid 25s to 2689 for the test loads and groups were excellent for most loads...5 shot groups.  On top of that IMR 4451 has some copper fouling reducer in it and is temp insensitive.  My gun doctor says he is using RL 16 for competition but I haven't been able to find any yet.

[Deadshot2]

I just worked up a load for my new Savage Ashbury using IMR 4451 for the first time since I couldn't score any H4350.  I was very impressed with the low SDs/ ESs for the various loads I tested.  Speeds were from mid 25s to 2689 for the test loads and groups were excellent for most loads...5 shot groups.  On top of that IMR 4451 has some copper fouling reducer in it and is temp insensitive.  My gun doctor says he is using RL 16 for competition but I haven't been able to find any yet.

I just worked up a load for my new Savage Ashbury using IMR 4451 for the first time since I couldn't score any H4350.  I was very impressed with the low SDs/ ESs for the various loads I tested.  Speeds were from mid 25s to 2689 for the test loads and groups were excellent for most loads...5 shot groups.  On top of that IMR 4451 has some copper fouling reducer in it and is temp insensitive.  My gun doctor says he is using RL 16 for competition but I haven't been able to find any yet.

I just worked up a load for my new Savage Ashbury using IMR 4451 for the first time since I couldn't score any H4350.  I was very impressed with the low SDs/ ESs for the various loads I tested.  Speeds were from mid 25s to 2689 for the test loads and groups were excellent for most loads...5 shot groups.  On top of that IMR 4451 has some copper fouling reducer in it and is temp insensitive.  My gun doctor says he is using RL 16 for competition but I haven't been able to find any yet.

In my quest to find suitable substitutes for H-4350 I have really fallen in love with the IMR-4451.   Good speed from my rifle with 140 gr ELD-M's, superb accuracy, and really easy clean-up.   Apparently what they say about the copper fouling reducer is true.   Only thing I see when I scope my barrel after a few range sessions and cleaning is a little remaining carbon that is usual in the throat area.   Some J-B or Flitz scrubs that out real easy.

I do like both RL-16 and RL-17 as well as Superformance..  Shooting mostly 147 gr ELD-M's now so  I don't know how the IMR-4451 will fare.  Hornady lists RL-17, Norma URP, Hybrid 100V, IMR-4831, Superformance, and Power Pro 4000 MR, as powders that will yield speeds in the upper 2600 fps range (2650 to be specific) but that can easily be faster if one has a "fast tube".

I think that the longer H-4350 remains scarce the greater the chance it might become "just another powder".   

[pjogrinc]

Well, finally settled on my RL16 load.  42.4 was TOO HOT when the temps were in the low 90s and rounds left out in sun by accident.  Had slight bolt drag on opening, but still is my best group to date.

My load I settled on is 41.0 grains of RL16, Fed 210M, 139 Scenars.  Shoots great at 300 and 400 yards, constantly sub 2 inch at 300 and sub 2.5 inches at 400.  Now it's time to start playing seriously at 600 yards.

 

[swampthang]

CAUTION RL16 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey y'all just want to put out a yellow flag if you are starting to play with RL16...  did some initial testing of RL16 and RL 26 today.  (Berger 140 VLD-H out of twice fired, sized, turned and annealed Nosler brass (158 gr) , pockets uniformed, Fed 210 M, BTO 2.182, COAL 2.844 (0.025" jump this gun), neck wall 0.0130", 0.285" bushing, loaded neck  dia 0.289", loads trickled with calibrated GemPro;  this gun Defiance Deviant Tactical w/small pin, 24" Benchmark on a Manners overbedded mini chassis w/Jewel, barrel fully sweetened.)

Primers cratering at 42.6 gr RL16 2908 fps (LabRadar 56F).  Progressive development of pressure signs:  42.9 (mean 2934 fps), primers flattening with slight E marks, blown primer at 43.2 (2945 fps), very heavy bolt lift 43.5 (2963 fps). 

I can't believe the suggested higher end load data posted for the SMK pill.  (My control load shot today was my pet load of 42.0 H4350 (everything else the same) making 2815 fps, sd 8, 0.38 moa 300 yds, which is kinda where it usually is given temperature.)

I dont know if others have tried, just wanted to get this out - PLEASE EVERYONE BE CAREFUL!!!

Interestingly, RL 26 was strikingly benign with absolutely no pressure signs from 46.5 gr. up to a slightly compressed load at 48.1 gr (making stupid 2965 fps). 

I remain intrigued by both powders as a possible temperature stable alternate to H4350.  We'll see on precision, but < 42.5 gr. RL16 appears promising.

I haven't got away from my h  4350 YET so I can't speak on the powder.
But I can testify that primer cratering with a fed primer is nothing to panic about.
I know for a fact I don't load a got load.
Had a guy see some brass one year and swore my load was to hit.
It's a known fact federal primers have a notoriously soft cup,which when fired will flow.
If I feel confident in my reloads it's never a worry when using fed primer.
USE YOUR OWN JUDGEMENT.
I DO NOT WANT AN ACTION TO BLOW UP AND HURT ANYBODY.
we had that happen one time at cool acres , guy lost eye, ginger and had never competed again that I know of.
These are MY FINDINGS AND MY OPINIONS.
I use bolt lift, and  swipe along with primers and alot of experience to show me pressure concerns.

[Deadshot2]

I haven't got away from my h  4350 YET so I can't speak on the powder.
But I can testify that primer cratering with a fed primer is nothing to panic about.
I know for a fact I don't load a got load.
Had a guy see some brass one year and swore my load was to hit.
It's a known fact federal primers have a notoriously soft cup,which when fired will flow.
If I feel confident in my reloads it's never a worry when using fed primer.
USE YOUR OWN JUDGEMENT.
I DO NOT WANT AN ACTION TO BLOW UP AND HURT ANYBODY.
we had that happen one time at cool acres , guy lost eye, ginger and had never competed again that I know of.
These are MY FINDINGS AND MY OPINIONS.
I use bolt lift, and  swipe along with primers and alot of experience to show me pressure concerns.

But I can testify that primer cratering with a fed primer is nothing to panic about.
I know for a fact I don't load a got load.
Had a guy see some brass one year and swore my load was to hit.
It's a known fact federal primers have a notoriously soft cup,which when fired will flow.
If I feel confident in my reloads it's never a worry when using fed primer.
USE YOUR OWN JUDGEMENT.
I DO NOT WANT AN ACTION TO BLOW UP AND HURT ANYBODY.
we had that happen one time at cool acres , guy lost eye, ginger and had never competed again that I know of.
These are MY FINDINGS AND MY OPINIONS.
I use bolt lift, and  swipe along with primers and alot of experience to show me pressure concerns.

If I feel confident in my reloads it's never a worry when using fed primer.
USE YOUR OWN JUDGEMENT.
I DO NOT WANT AN ACTION TO BLOW UP AND HURT ANYBODY.
we had that happen one time at cool acres , guy lost eye, ginger and had never competed again that I know of.
These are MY FINDINGS AND MY OPINIONS.
I use bolt lift, and  swipe along with primers and alot of experience to show me pressure concerns.

[/quote]

I know that everyone is concerned about a catastrophic failure with a rifle when hand loading.   One thing to note is that if one uses acceptable load workup practices and pays attention to the most important indicators, at the worst they will end up with a stuck case and/or a bolt that won't open.

Good "Bench Practices", keeping only ONE container open on the bench at a time will keep pistol powders from ending up in rifle cases which is a guaranteed catastrophe.

Selecting the proper powder for a given caliber is another good practice.   If the powder manufacturer doesn't list a load for a given powder in a specific caliber, there might be a good reason.   Proceed with EXTREME caution.

Remember that just because someone else did it with no issues doesn't mean you won't have problems.   Not unless you are using THEIR rifle.  They're all different.

I hate using primers as a pressure indicator by themselves.  I have loads that are spot on for published speed, don't abuse the cases, yet the primer both "top hats" and craters like mad.    Unless I see that happening along with ejector marks and difficult bolt lift I just shoot on.

Today's rifles are made with some pretty stout materials.  If your action is made from 4140 or 4150 steel, it's capable of withstanding pressures in the 100,000 psi range.  Brass cases start to yield greatly at 70,000 psi.  Modern rifles are designed to deal with case failures as long as the overall pressures don't go absolutely over the top as they can with the wrong powder in the case or even in some cases too little powder which can cause detonation.

Biggest thing for those who are new to hand loading is to go slow and ask lots of questions. 

Just be wary of any advice telling you to 'for it' that's given by someone who only has one eye.   We have one of those at our range that just says "add more powder until you can't lift the bolt then back down a couple tenths".   He had a bolt take out his right eye and a piece of his skull.   He now shoots Left Handed.

Last comment, I'm a huge fan of loading "Just fast enough" for the shooting I'm doing.   If I can make it out to my 1K (or more) target at speeds over Mach 1.2 why should I care if I'm only getting 2750 fps at the muzzle?   Better bullets today stay fast farther than in the past.

[matt0550]

Thought I'd add a load to the list.

I have a CMMG Mk3 DTR2 in 6.5CM and it has been a long road to find a load that performs well. The trouble with this rifle is that the feed ramps are cut so generously that the entry angle of the round coming off the mag going into the chamber is actually too low with Berger VLD and even their AR hybrid OTM bullets. When I have loaded these types of bullets, I find that upon attempting to chamber  a round, the sharp edge of the meplat makes solid contact with the end of the chamber and action ceases right there smashing the meplat and denying the rounds entry into the chamber. After multiple attempts at seating depths it became obvious that it is the slender profile on the nose of these rounds that keeps their angle so low passing the feed ramps.

I eventually tried the Nosler ABLR in 129gr and discovered that due to its slightly larger forward profile, when it rides up the feed ramp, it clears the end of the chamber and inserts fully without any contact and no stoppage.

knowing that I finally found a higher BC long range projo that will function, I began load development.

here is my pet load:

129 ABLR over 43.4gr RL17 with Win WLR magnum primers = 2950fps on the nose, SD7 and 1.47" group average at 200 yards.

[gorillamotors]

My quickload 3.8 does not have RL26 in the database. Does anyone have the RL26 propellant data so that I can manually input it into QL?