News:

To support the forum with your donation, please check https://tinyurl.com/4vv24dup.

Main Menu

Converting .243 brass to 6.5 Creedmoor

Started by Trent, January 16, 2012, 09:17:46 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Trent

It is all annealed, but it seems like they can't make up their minds on whether or not to polish it prior to packaging. I've heard some folks say they have gone back to polishing it again which removes most of the annealing "blue". I think all companies do this. Lapua seems to one of the only companies that consistently leaves the bluing.


M.O.A.

Quote from: Trent on August 31, 2012, 08:02:17 AMNo, annealing always means "to soften", but brass is very different from steel in this respect. Heating brass will cause it to be more malleable, and even if you heat it glowing red and quench it in water it will still stay "soft". The only way to make brass harder is by work hardening it. In our case that is done everytime we fire and resize the brass. When moderately reforming the brass like this (.243 to CM) the brass is work hardened to a certain point. It isn't necessary to anneal them but I feel that I'll get better accuracy and lose less brass to cracked necks if I do.
thanks for clearing that up i know that annealing steal made it harder

Trent

Quote from: M.O.A. on August 31, 2012, 04:33:26 PM
Quote from: Trent on August 31, 2012, 08:02:17 AMNo, annealing always means "to soften", but brass is very different from steel in this respect. Heating brass will cause it to be more malleable, and even if you heat it glowing red and quench it in water it will still stay "soft". The only way to make brass harder is by work hardening it. In our case that is done everytime we fire and resize the brass. When moderately reforming the brass like this (.243 to CM) the brass is work hardened to a certain point. It isn't necessary to anneal them but I feel that I'll get better accuracy and lose less brass to cracked necks if I do.
thanks for clearing that up i know that annealing steal made it harder

Well, not quite. Annealing always means "to soften". If you heat steel to glowing red and then quench it in water it will get hard, but if you heat hardened steel glowing red and then let it cool slowly it will get "soft" or annealed. The big difference with Brass is that you cannot make it harder with any kind of heating process. Only softer. It's like a magic metal that doesn't follow the rules.  :)

MZ5

#33
Lapua, Prvi Partizan (Serbia), and Lake City Army Ammunition Plant (and other mil-surp makers) are the only places I can think of that don't polish the annealing colors out.

Trent

There is nothing more beautiful than opening a fresh box of Lapua brass and seeing the gleaming  cases with annealed necks and shoulders. It's like man gold. :)

MZ5

You know, it's kinda funny. I always think: "Really? The most expensive brass on the planet, but you can't even polish out the oxidation for me?"
:)

Trent

Haha, that's funny. I'm always a little sad when it eventually polishes away.

M.O.A.

????  can you over heat the brass when annealing ? and if so what happens to the brass does it get too soft ?

Trent

Quote from: M.O.A. on September 02, 2012, 11:56:46 PM????  can you over heat the brass when annealing ? and if so what happens to the brass does it get too soft ?

yes, and YES. Basically, the hotter you get it the softer it gets. You can get the necks hot enough that you can squish the necks between your thumb and finger. Not good.

Check out some of the videos on YouTube on annealing brass. Lots of different methods and machines to do it. Some good videos there.

M.O.A.

trent thank you so much for all the help you have givin it been very useful

MZ5

To expand on Trent's comments on overheating the brass:  If you overheat it, it's unrecoverable junk since the grain structure is permanently destroyed for the purpose of holding and releasing a bullet the way we need it to.  Since annealing is a process, one can anneal (and also overheat) at lower temps by taking more time, or at higher temps for shorter time.  The potential danger of low & slow is that the heat migrates to the case head quickly, and if you soften the case head, that's DANGEROUS(!).  Soft/blown case heads are what shatter rifle steel into grenade chunks.  Seriously, don't anneal the case head!

Trent


giterdone

Regarding over heating.....an annealing machine like the "Bench Source" has a timer that you can adjust (in seconds) so that the cases are all exposed for the same length of time.  Yes.... they (Bench Source) are not cheap but if you want to have cases that are uniformly annealed IMHO its the way to go.  YMMV
The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill.  Rifles and cartridges don't make hits-----shooters do.

MZ5

I've heard those are pretty nice machines!

Another alternative that's more cost-effective for the more modestly-funded shooter is to buy some Tempilaq.  This is a temperature-indicating liquid (like a paint; there's also a pen/crayon version).  Applied a bit below the shoulder, it will change color (vanish, usually) once the brass it's applied to reaches the target temperature.

I guess the Tempilaq isn't exactly an alternative since you might just as well use it with the machine.  It's more of a compliment to any method.  So, an alternative method would be the candle method.  Another would be a propane torch.  I suggest one NOT use an acetylene torch. ;)

swampthang

i am interested in the  propane torch  method, it wont be quiet as accurate as the machine but with a little practice it will serve the purpose. a hand held propane torch only gets "so hot" even at wide open
 so my question is HOW LONG IN SECONDS WOULD ONE HOLD THE NECKS UNDER THE FLAME?  i would use it at wide open to get consistency of the available heat but how long?
"kill em all"