Shooting and Loading the Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor

[Downeast]

I'm new at this reloading above Max loads so please bare with me.   I have a 1:8 Krieger #3 26 inch bbl with 49 rounds through it as of yesterday. I'm loading 140 Berger VLD's with H4350. COAL is book; 2.80.  I did a ladder test yesterday starting at 37.0 grains and working up to 41.0 grains in 1 grain increments. 37.0 was the most accurate (0.43 inch; 3 shot group) and 41.0 was 0.76 inch with a 3 shot group. These figures are based on dividing the group by 2 since they were shot at 200 yards. Put me at 100 yards and my groups are measured in feet and I have to use refrigerator boxes for targets. So, I'm going to work up to 42 grains today and see what happens. Personally, I think it is the old 8-ball Geezer behind the gun and that there is not enough difference between 37 grains and 41 grains except velocity. I figured once I got a "good" group I would start tweaking COAL and then start running velocities.  Ha!

Geezing in NC
Tom

[Rob01]

Chrono that 37grn load. I am betting it is very slow. But if it works for you then stick with it.

[Cold Trigger Finger]

 Tom;  Many of us found our best accuracy load within 42 gr of H4350 with 140 Berger's . Mine is 42.8 gr . gives me sub 1" groups at 300meters. Tho far and away from any kind of bragging group on here , its pretty good , OK from a factory rifle that I chopped the barrel off. Myself, with a Sawzall !
 Also, tho Krieger barrels are real good right out the gate. I do think it will season in and groups will shrink for you.
 With 140s that have a harder jacket I can use more powder . Possibly with the Berger Target bullet I could also . the load I worked up is with the Hunting VLD.
 Anyway, I predict you will find a sweet spot somewhere in the 42 gr H4350 140gr bullets .
 Work up slowly and there you'll be.

[dadajack]

I have yet to work up over 41 grains with any 140 grain bullet. My loads with the 140 ELD-M were moving around 2725 with 41 grains out of a 26" tube, and I will work up higher in charge.

I wonder if that guy meant the velocity would be slower with a 1-8" twist there is effectively more resistance due to the tighter twist? I don't know if that even comes into play. Has anyone doen a study on twist rate and velocity? I wonder if we could get even better velocity with a gain twist barrel!

I'm kidding about the gain twist. It's not like we're shooting 30mm projectiles at 3000 fps here... Hell, some of the bullets we shoot aren't even 30mm long! I can't wait to get off this night shift. It makes me ramble so much.

[Cold Trigger Finger]

Gain twist rifleing does help mitigate peak pressure. At least one of our 6.5 predessors ( the 6.5 Carcano) had gain twist rifleing. And from the records of ruptured cases and failures to extract , the 256 Mannlicher, could have used it also. With the powders of the day , even 2200fps with a 160 gr bullet under tropical conditions proved too much for the brass to handle.
 In modern times , the 460 Smith and Wesson had to have gain twist rifleing to function in the XVR ,with safety and dependability.
 There may well be others. Like the 454 Casul that could use it but FA went with a slow twist.  There are no doubt others, but those come to mind. 
 I think all 6.5s should have gain twist rifleing . Just makes for a nicer transition from dead still to ?how many thousand rpm , in a split second. No wonder some bullets blow up in mid air .

[dadajack]

I think those thin jacketed varmint bullets blow up regardless of how fast you get them to their terminal RPM. Although, there could be some tearing of the jacket in the barrel from the rifling that compromises the integrity of the bullet. But, I think a 22-250 with a 35 grains varmint bullet will detonate outside the barrel with a fast enough twist even if you used polygonal rifling and gain twist if the rate is fast enough.

So, the twist rate can, indeed, influence peak pressure, but does that mean you retain the same muzzle velocity, or would the MV also drop enough to be statistically relevant to cartridge performance. Also, I wonder how fast we could get the 6.5 Creedmoor going safely witth a gain twist barrel? Could you imagine how much that barrel would cost? To go from 0-8" twist in 26" or less? I wonder if there is a minimum barrel length necessary to stabilize the bullet at the final twist rate. I mean, surely you can't just have one or two calibers of final twist rate at the end of the barrel and call it good, can you?

I didn't realize the 454 Casull could benefit from gain twist. I know it is high pressure, but... Aww hell. there I go again. Talk to you guys later.

[coondog]

I worked up a load today using CFE and a 140gr Barnes matchburner in a RPR. When I got to 44grs the primers let go in Hornady brass.

[bowman3899]

I would think so hodgdon list 41.5 as max on 107 grn pill. When did you get flat primers? Did you happen to chronograph any of those?

[coondog]

No chrono numbers. 41.5 with a 107gr bullet wow. Yah that's a smoking hot load with a 140. I found that load somewhere. I'll have to look for it again.

[dadajack]

HOLY SMOKE! Check those cases for expansion!
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Also, I've tested loads where I got to popping primers without ever even getting a hint of bolt lift, then 0.3 grains later, POW! heavy bolt and blown primer... Not a great feeling.

[coondog]

The funny thing is I cleaned the barrel before that five round test. The first three cases are reloadable and the last two are history. Blowing the primer in a Hornady case is not near the pressure that it takes to blow a case. Ive seen a guy get his powders mixed up and over charge a case to the point he created a new cartridge. The new 243 belted magnum that uses shot gun primers. He was probably pretty close to a case rupture.

[Denver Steve]

Gain twist rifleing does help mitigate peak pressure. At least one of our 6.5 predessors ( the 6.5 Carcano) had gain twist rifleing. And from the records of ruptured cases and failures to extract , the 265 Mannlicher, could have used it also. With the powders of the day , even 2200fps with a 160 gr bullet under tropical conditions proved too much for the brass to handle.
 In modern times , the 460 Smith and Wesson had to have gain twist rifleing to function in the XVR ,with safety and dependability.
 There may well be others. Like the 454 Casul that could use it but FA went with a slow twist.  There are no doubt others, but those come to mind. 
 I think all 6.5s should have gain twist rifleing . Just makes for a nicer transition from dead still to ?how many thousand rpm , in a split second. No wonder some bullets blow up in mid air .

+1 on the carcano and gain twist rifling. My dad has an old 6.5 carcano that i would like to get into reloading for him. Bartlein also offers a gain twist rifling for their barrels but i believe they call it their t-style rifling. Heard nothing but good things about it from the few people i have talked to that have shot them.

[TexasOutfitter]

Great info in this thread!

[Cold Trigger Finger]

I think those thin jacketed varmint bullets blow up regardless of how fast you get them to their terminal RPM. Although, there could be some tearing of the jacket in the barrel from the rifling that compromises the integrity of the bullet. But, I think a 22-250 with a 35 grains varmint bullet will detonate outside the barrel with a fast enough twist even if you used polygonal rifling and gain twist if the rate is fast enough.

So, the twist rate can, indeed, influence peak pressure, but does that mean you retain the same muzzle velocity, or would the MV also drop enough to be statistically relevant to cartridge performance. Also, I wonder how fast we could get the 6.5 Creedmoor going safely witth a gain twist barrel? Could you imagine how much that barrel would cost? To go from 0-8" twist in 26" or less? I wonder if there is a minimum barrel length necessary to stabilize the bullet at the final twist rate. I mean, surely you can't just have one or two calibers of final twist rate at the end of the barrel and call it good, can you?

I didn't realize the 454 Casull could benefit from gain twist. I know it is high pressure, but... Aww hell. there I go again. Talk to you guys later.

 I don't know. But I'm going to check out Bartlien's website.

[Cold Trigger Finger]

+1 on the carcano and gain twist rifling. My dad has an old 6.5 carcano that i would like to get into reloading for him. Bartlein also offers a gain twist rifling for their barrels but i believe they call it their t-style rifling. Heard nothing but good things about it from the few people i have talked to that have shot them.

 Steve; thanks for the heads up on Bartlein