Did you reload any thing today..

[autoxforfun]

Here's a question.  Do you point before or after sorting for OAL?  I guess if I used the Hoover system, then this would not be an issue.  But I use the Whidden pointing die only.

I started pointing after OAL sorting since I thought this would provide the most consistent pointing results.  So I did that and then went back and measured the OAL on those that I pointed.  Well, they were different and varied.  So now I point everything from a new box of bullets, then sort for OAL and then weight sort.  Thoughts?

[Bullet Jockey]

Here's a question.  Do you point before or after sorting for OAL?  I guess if I used the Hoover system, then this would not be an issue.  But I use the Whidden pointing die only.

I started pointing after OAL sorting since I thought this would provide the most consistent pointing results.  So I did that and then went back and measured the OAL on those that I pointed.  Well, they were different and varied.  So now I point everything from a new box of bullets, then sort for OAL and then weight sort.  Thoughts?

I typically sort 100 bullets OAL...I save the three longest bullets to set my Hoover pointing die up.

I then use a .20 caliber comparator insert to measure the meplat before pointing. Once the die is adjusted to zero from touch I go to .010 crush (Berger 180gr hybrid).

If the jacket hasn't moved. I will turn the die down in .003 increments and measure each time looking for jacket deformation.

Once the jacket moves, I back the die off .005-.007 and then point my batch of bullets.

After all the pointing is done...I will sort OAL. Typically the bullets will grow .003-.006 give or take. I try to shoot the middle of the bell curve. The big end and the small end will be regulated to fouler/fire forming/barrel break in or club matches.....From what I've seen the outliers on the big end will give you heartburn if you try to shoot from long to short.

I would also recommend trying different punches if you have the Hoover set-up. The recommended punch may not always be the best one.

[TZaun]

I ran a trim and point test at 1000 last August in my BR rifle. Not what I was expecting.

[autoxforfun]

I ran a trim and point test at 1000 last August in my BR rifle. Not what I was expecting.

lol...what are you going to do with that?  I have observed that some bullets really don't benefit from pointing.  The DTAC's for example, I just leave them alone where as the 105 Hybrids definitely benefit from pointing.

[TZaun]

I left em the heck alone lol. It was just before the Deep Creek Championship and this was all I ran for a test. Will try not trimming before pointing next chance I get. Then taking Norm's advice about trying a different tipping insert. I've had positive response from tipping 215 Hybrids and 110 BIBs. Glad I didn't get in a hurry and just do it before heading out there.

[jvw2008]

I used my Hoover trimmer once - that was the last time. I only point 103 VTs for the regional or national 1000 yd matches but I honestly can't say my results are better than leaving them alone. Strictly a guess on my part here, but I would venture to say that approach might not be the most appropriate way to go with every brand of bullet.

@TZ: would have been neat to see how a pointed-only group would have performed in your comparison test.

[TZaun]

I'll run that test sometime this Summer and will post the results.

[LeadHammer]

Is BTOG bullet sorting not necessary for those competing any longer?
I have good results doing this but I do not point/tip.

I had tested with also including a OAL sort after the BTOG sorting but need to revisit that this spring since the results were inconclusive for me the first time. ( I demoted myself to ELDM's now  ) I have started sorting some Hornady's tonight. 

[Bullet Jockey]

I don't sort BTO personally and haven't since probably 2017. I haven't found it makes a difference for Fclass and hunting.

If I were a BR shooter I'd probably sort BTO just because it's what the cool kids do.

@DHuffman guilted me into sorting some for the Rendezvous last year (that I didn't get to shoot).     

[LeadHammer]

Well I definitely have to revisit my sorting methods if some things don't matter. Hopefully my shooting field is available ( weather permitting ) this spring to get some distance in to test. I sorted 200 140Eldm's ( same lot #'s ) and have 3 distinct sorts.  Only a few that don't belong. One especially is out to lunch.

[Bullet Jockey]

Well I definitely have to revisit my sorting methods if some things don't matter. Hopefully my shooting field is available ( weather permitting ) this spring to get some distance in to test. I sorted 200 140Eldm's ( same lot #'s ) and have 3 distinct sorts.  Only a few that don't belong. One especially is out to lunch.

Nothing better than finding out what works for your program than testing for yourself. Besides it's burning powder and that ain't a bad thing.

[LeadHammer]

Nothing better than finding out what works for your program than testing for yourself. Besides it's burning powder and that ain't a bad thing.

Yep trigger time is fun.

Just cause, I took my worst outlier in regards to BTOG, and compared OAL to 10 bullets from a large bell curve group from BTOG.
Worst BTOG was 0.002" shorter than the closest bell curve large group, but it's OAL falls inline with the other 10 bullets.

[autoxforfun]

My current process is to point a couple hundred of the desired bullet, sort by OAL and then weight sort.  I used to sort by BTO but decided to pick OAL since I was seeing a bigger spread in this measurement, especially after pointing.  

My main motivation for pointing is that I did see an improvement at the target at 1000 yards.  I shot a lot of groups, both pointed and non-pointed and convinced myself that pointing made an improvement.

As for sorting, my main reason for sorting is to find the MFG defects.  For every box of 500 that I sort, I will find one or two that are way outside of the normal distribution.  Those I don't want to shoot in a match.  But once I am in the process of sorting, I might as well put them into buckets of similar value. It sure can't hurt to shoot your record rounds with bullets as close to the same as possible.  This goes for OAL as well as Weight.  I then use these outliers as my first 5 barrel foulers and initial sighters.

[LeadHammer]

What are the parameters for OAL keep discard that you all use?
This group of roughly 80 bullets had an OAL spread of 0.005". Vast majority are within 0.001" of each other. 95% are within 0.003"

[autoxforfun]

What are the parameters for OAL keep discard that you all use?
This group of roughly 80 bullets had an OAL spread of 0.005". Vast majority are within 0.001" of each other. 95% are within 0.003"

I don't have an absolute answer for your question.  It depends on the bullet, the lot # and how good that box of bullets are.  With most of my match bullets, I find that 98% are within a 0.000 - 0.003 range.  There will be a few on the edges and perhaps one or two that are 0.010 off of the center distribution.