Primer seating

[DHuffman]

.1455" on the flat face PR tip

.1685" on the concave A1

SR pocket is .171" inner bottom diameter

[autoxforfun]

Jerry and Dave, just when I was getting happy with where I was in this rabbit hole you guys have to come along and try and pull me deeper...lol.  But we're all about shooting those small groups.

[DHuffman]

Jerry and Dave, just when I was getting happy with where I was in this rabbit hole you guys have to come along and try and pull me deeper...lol.  But we're all about shooting those small groups.

What I think the benefit will be is a reduction in some of those unexplained groups that "got away" for instance when you sit down to shoot two targets side by side like in a 600 yard IBS match where the first target is shot then a second sighter period and the second is shot.
When one group is noticeably larger, has a flier or is shaped noticeably different and no condition change was noticed and there's really no explanation for the difference.
Any improvement in individual group size may will likely be measured over the course of the season in a 10 or more target agg. At 600 yards possibly more high 1s and low 2s vs low 2s and high 2s with the occasional 1

Look at all the steps some of us take to "make them all the same"

Weight sorting components
Dimensional sorting components
Weighing powder to the kernel
Brass prep steps
Bullet seating depth to .0005" +/-
Etc.

Then we get to this step of priming brass and pushing a primer into an inconsistent hole by feel is good enough?
People claim to get this consistent light crush by feel on a hand tool. Mmmm OK

Groups and aggs get smaller and records fall. Probably not by people who are happy with where they are at and not looking for the next stone unturned.

[autoxforfun]

Jerry and Dave, just when I was getting happy with where I was in this rabbit hole you guys have to come along and try and pull me deeper...lol.  But we're all about shooting those small groups.

What I think the benefit will be is a reduction in some of those unexplained groups that "got away" for instance when you sit down to shoot two targets side by side like in a 600 yard IBS match where the first target is shot then a second sighter period and the second is shot.
When one group is noticeably larger, has a flier or is shaped noticeably different and no condition change was noticed and there's really no explanation for the difference.
Any improvement in individual group size may will likely be measured over the course of the season in a 10 or more target agg. At 600 yards possibly more high 1s and low 2s vs low 2s and high 2s with the occasional 1

Look at all the steps some of us take to "make them all the same"

Weight sorting components
Dimensional sorting components
Weighing powder to the kernel
Brass prep steps
Bullet seating depth to .0005" +/-
Etc.

Then we get to this step of priming brass and pushing a primer into an inconsistent hole by feel is good enough?
People claim to get this consistent light crush by feel on a hand tool. Mmmm OK

Groups and aggs get smaller and records fall. Probably not by people who are happy with where they are at and not looking for the next stone unturned.

What makes this forum so valuable and continues to do so, are the contributions from you, Jerry and others regarding the finer elements of precision loading/shooting.  Thank you for putting the details out there so we can all benefit....very much appreciated.  So even though I may be comfortable now, that usually doesn't last very long and then I'm looking for the next knob to turn to make it better or faster. 

I have thought for awhile now, that sorting primers may be something to try and evaluate.  Seating depth/pocket forming is now on the list.

[jvw2008]

"Groups and aggs get smaller and records fall. Probably not by people who are happy with where they are at and not looking for the next stone unturned"

AMEN!

[jvw2008]

The will to win can only be fulfilled by your willingness to prepare.

[autoxforfun]

I went back and read thru this thread a couple times and followed up on the companies providing the tools.  A lot of good information here.  I want to thank Dave for starting the topic and all those that contributed. 

[DHuffman]

I went back and read thru this thread a couple times and followed up on the companies providing the tools.  A lot of good information here.  I want to thank Dave for starting the topic and all those that contributed. 

I've seated about 700+ rounds of brass in the last week getting ready for the 2 match weekend in MN then onto the Rendevouz in MO.

I've probably seated 1100+ on it now and at first was frustrated that while it may or may not have been doing what it claimed I could not accurately measure it. Jerry and I have had many conversations on how to get the most out of the tools and I can say from my experience the key to being able to get a consistent measurement you can trust is uniforming with a precision uniformer that the depth can be controlled on. The consistent feel of the bottoming of the primer in the pocket let's you accurately set the crush.
I feel to get a consistent below flush seat the pocket needs to be in the .1215" to .123" range. If the cutter could consistently cut .122 - .123 it is about perfect.
Many uniformers won't cut this deep. One of the adjustable I'm using went too deep on the shallowest setting so I was filing the blunt end of the carbide cutter to get it deeper in the holder to get the cut in that range.
Some cutters are larger diameter than others and after discussing it with Jerry more than once his 21st Century tool is .170" in diameter and cuts minimal if any sidewall which is ideal.
I've heard the PMA tool is designed for Lapua brass to NOT cut sidewall only depth.
This would be beneficial to pocket life IMO.

Most tools will easily get to .001" variance in depth and even closer to .0005" with the occasional one getting to a full .001" variance.

It's all achievable and repeatable with the right tools. The downside is those tools are not cheap LOL but the press is so much nicer to use than a handheld so even if I can never prove this all matters on paper I'll continue to use it for ease of function and the ability to sort based on a measurable known vs a feeling.

I kind of actually enjoy priming with this set up vs the handhelds.

[jvw2008]

I talked to Shawn Williams at North Ridge Rifles about 6 months ago and asked him why he was using the Primal Rights seater. I expected him to say "for the added precision". His first answer was, "because it's saving my hands and wrists". Precision was his second reason. 

[DHuffman]

After using this procedure awhile I think the next time I uniform a set of pockets .121" would be my target depth on the pockets.

With .003" crush I'm getting a few @ .006" below flush. I don't really know that it matters but it seem the less you take out of the pocket the better for longevity.

[VA-XBolt]

Guys,

OK, some of you have the fancier tools (e.g Primal Rights CPS) for primer seating. In theory, once you've set your depth, or crush, then you're good to go, because in theory you can't "over crush", because the ram bottoms out.

The question: Is anyone actually measuring all your primed cases for the amount below flush, and what variance are you seeing due to possible differences in the case rim thickness?

I'm still out here sitting on the fence regarding additional tools, primer gauges etc, though I think I might be swayed to the CPS due to the "saving my hands and wrists"  (Thanks @jvw2008)

[DHuffman]

Guys,

OK, some of you have the fancier tools (e.g Primal Rights CPS) for primer seating. In theory, once you've set your depth, or crush, then you're good to go, because in theory you can't "over crush", because the ram bottoms out.

The question: Is anyone actually measuring all your primed cases for the amount below flush, and what variance are you seeing due to possible differences in the case rim thickness?

I'm still out here sitting on the fence regarding additional tools, primer gauges etc, though I think I might be swayed to the CPS due to the "saving my hands and wrists"  (Thanks @jvw2008)

I'm not using the depth stop. I'm feeling the bottom then applying an exact amount of crush measured by dial indicator on the f class products stand.

My experience has shown me no matter how uniform the pocket .003" crush does not give the same below flush measurement across a set of brass.
Some of the variation is likely in the rims as you said but I believe some lies in the varying friction in a pocket.

I've determined for my use the most practical method is uniformed pockets with primer seated as above. The cases are sorted for below flush and will vary from .001" to as high as .003" whichever group has the most cases becomes my record rounds. The next largest group which has always been within .001" of these one way or the other become my sighters then the outliers are foulers.

With the dial you can tell crush would not be even with the depth stop because the dial reads different depths when you fell bottom. This would have a lot to do with cup thickness and anvil protrusion.

I'm not saying another method would not work but the way I'm doing it I'm satisfied I'm getting consistent crush because I can actually measure it.
Consistent below flush should make for consistent ignition.
Different crush will optimize ignition and it can be seen on target just like a powder or seating ladder.

[DHuffman]

If a guy were really gonna go off the deep end sorting primers by cup height would take a little more +/- out of the equation but at the moment I'm happy with where I'm at.

[jvw2008]

Both is optimal. 😊

[DHuffman]

Jerry will be turning case heads to uniform the extractor groove before long 🤣