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Local NBRSA Match

Started by autoxforfun, January 25, 2021, 11:39:16 AM

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autoxforfun

I shot in our local NBRSA 600 yard match today.  It was nice to shoot a low key local match...hadn't done that since last March.  I decided to shoot the 6mm Grendel for light gun and the 6mm Dasher for heavy gun.  Well, the Grendel needs more work.  I knew I was not going to be that strong with it since I really didn't have a load finalized for it.  I went in thinking that I was close and loaded a set of loads to try.  Well, that didn't work.  I was dead last on LG.  Then switched to the Dasher for HG and went from last to 1st, with best group and best 3 target score/group.  So between my last place and my 1st place, I finished in the middle overall.   But I must say, the Dasher is a great round.  I found the Bart's Hammer's a great bullet, especially if you take the time to point them.
Bob
If everything seems under control......you're just not going fast enough

HufD63

That's got me wanting to shoot a match LOL and really has me looking forward to getting my gear back from the smith.
Dave

gman47564

Nice job with the dasher bob.. ????
Grant

jvw2008

Nice job Bob. ????
Looks like you picked up a little breeze on that third target.
Is that a new barrel on your Grendel?

autoxforfun

#34
Quote from: jvw2008 on November 29, 2021, 08:51:52 AMNice job Bob. ????
Looks like you picked up a little breeze on that third target.
Is that a new barrel on your Grendel?
Thanks guys for the congrats.  There was definitely some wind and it was slowing getting stronger as it got later (as it does at SacValley).  On the last group, I remember that my last two sighters were hitting right even though the wind was from the right.  So I decided to hold left just a little.  Well the wind changed just enough throughout the 10 shots to move me out of the blue.  Still working on picking up these wind changes....

Regarding the Grendel, yes it is a new barrel and I was shooting a new bullet.  So should not have brought it out.....
Bob
If everything seems under control......you're just not going fast enough


jvw2008

Thought I had remembered correctly about the Grendel. I'm sure you will whip it into shape. ????

Once we have load development under our belt, it seems practice becomes focused on two areas: bench manners (or recoil management), and secondly, wind reading for proper POI on target.
Bench manners are simply establishing a constant and repetitive interaction with the rifle. - muscle memory. When it's so automatic that you are not thinking about it - you're in the groove.

 Wind management is totally different. Trying to establish a predictive relationship with a constant variable is not simple muscle memory. ????  You must have correct info, know how to react to it, adjust correctly, and touch your round off without modifying your recoil management - all in a second or less to meet your goal of all rounds down range ASAP. Somewhere there is a happy compromise between speed of rounds down range and time for successful wind adjustment. Seems like that compromise is different for different shooters. In the extremes some say "damn the wind I'm running my rounds", others take their allotted record time to try to place their POI for whatever the current wind condition is at the moment. A review of competitive targets shot by the best benchresters always show larger groups on 10 shot targets versus 5 shot targets. How much of that group change is due to total wind time versus random dispersion -  from a larger count versus just one missed wind call? I'm sure it is not all dispersion.

I've always been a "damn the wind" shooter and done well with the technique, but I think I have reached a plateau of performance that I won't exceed until I focus more and adjust to changing wind. Running your rounds while depending on your last sighter placement on the target is simple muscle memory.  It just involves smooth and rapid cycling of rounds through the chamber. And, because it is a skill that allows you eliminate a frustrating variable, new BR shooters can talk themselves into accepting the consequences of a radical wind change during their run because they can find success in competition. The term success is defined by where you place goal. ???

If I was starting at the beginning again, I would develop a very solid base for wind adjustment  BEFORE learning how to run 10 rounds in 15 seconds through a single feed action. Speed to minimize the amount of wind changes during your run is in fact very important, but it is not a substitute for making yourself a part of the wind condition.

If your goal is to do your very best, then you have to learn how to beat the wind. IMO, there is no more effective way to do that than employing an electronic target, one shot at a time. Evaluate the condition, send your round, assess the POI relative to what your interpretation of the wind was when you touched it off. It's not just practice; it's educational practice.

(Sorry for the ramble ????)

autoxforfun

Thanks Jerry for the insights.

I too tend to shoot as quickly as I can but not as fast as some.  We have both styles in the club but the ones that do the best tend to shoot fast.  As I shoot, I am trying to pay attention to how the wind changes.  I peek up at the flags, check the mirage between shots.  I find the hardest to adjust to are the small changes that really aren't detectable with the flags.  There is not enough sensitivity in that indicator to show you a small change....enough to move you an inch or so.  I saw that at the Nationals where as the wind slowly increased/decreased, you could watch the POI move right or left.  It was catching everyone.

'Making yourself part of the wind condition' is an insightful statement.  One way that I've been using to do this is how does the wind feel on me.  While shooting, you can generally feel the wind on your face and body.  Now this is at ground level but still an indicator for what is happening at the muzzle.  As I do my sighters, I attempt to look at the flags/mirage and how the wind feels and understand how these together change the POI.  I have found a couple times that when I felt the wind change in my face, I would wait just a bit until it came back or adjust the POA....seemed to help.  We have over a dozen flags up for major matches, so sometimes it is finding the 'key' flag to pay attention to....often, there is that one flag that provides the best insight into the wind.  You are correct in working to integrate all of these inputs into something that can be predictive for each shot is the challenge.  We had a shooter that just past (Mike Scadden) that was really good at that.  After a string, he would mention that there was a change in the wind.....and I would look at him absolutely clueless.  Shooting with him was helpful....I will miss him.

I've been talking to our match director about having a few clinics to improve the overall performance of the club.  Want to help the members do better so that at National events, the 'Out of Town' folks don't take all of the top spots.  One of the clinics we want to do is one on wind reading.  Spending a few hours focused on this and walking thru the process would be a good learning experience for everyone.

Thanks again Jerry for the thoughts and insights.
Bob
If everything seems under control......you're just not going fast enough

jvw2008

Really good point on finding the one predictive flag! It seems every range has one that stands out. At CRC it's not one of the range flags!! It is the "range is hot" flag that is high and behind the pits. Think I remember reading an article by Litz about this subject.

We are also thinking about doing some basic BR instruction at CRC this spring. I'm hoping it will bring some more shooters in.

gman47564

No benchrest shooter here but i enjoy shooting out there long.. the wind... thats a mouth full.. lol.. i seem to always over think it.. or over estimate it.. if its blowing from left to right i will miss left usually.. lol.. i dont have flags per say but i tie surveyor's tape to my target stands.. i try to set at least 3 targets out.. for instance one at 500 another at 800 and one at a 1000.. kinda keep them in a line where i can see the tape blowing.. seems where i shoot theirs almost always mirage.. i honestly think if a guy could master reading mirage he could tame the wind.. mirage is everywhere between  the shooter and target.. i pay alot of attention to that trying to understand it better.. still got alot to learn though.. ????
Grant

autoxforfun

Not sure you ever master the wind.  But you can definitely keep getting better at it.....a continuous process of improvement.  I like to try and call my first  sighter shot.  This is purely a judgement call based on the wind reading that you make.  First objective is to be on paper and the next is how close to the X can I get.  After that shot, then you start adjusting but that first one is pretty blind.
Bob
If everything seems under control......you're just not going fast enough

boltman13

Until I master getting my rifle, front rest, rear bag setup repeatable I can not shoot as fast as I like and must pay close attention to the flags and mirage if any.  This means my score on any one target is directly related to my wind calls.  One thing I have found is if I wait for a wind condition to return I am usually rewarded with a higher score.  IBS 600 yard gives you 10 minutes to fire 5 shots and I seldom ever am not the last to get all my shots off.

jvw2008

Quote from: boltman13 on December 02, 2021, 07:48:55 PMUntil I master getting my rifle, front rest, rear bag setup repeatable I can not shoot as fast as I like and must pay close attention to the flags and mirage if any.  This means my score on any one target is directly related to my wind calls.  One thing I have found is if I wait for a wind condition to return I am usually rewarded with a higher score.  IBS 600 yard gives you 10 minutes to fire 5 shots and I seldom ever am not the last to get all my shots off.

Are you still shooting 600 over at WCRSC?

boltman13

Jerry, yes.  Last Match of 2021 next Saturday 12-11.  Come on over.