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Topic: Saturdays Disappointing OCW Resukts (Read 375 times) previous topic - next topic

Saturdays Disappointing OCW Resukts

Nice day in SE MO on Saturday so I got out and shot a few loads I had worked up trying to catch a little lightening with H4350 and the 129gr Hornady Interlock's in the little TC Compass. 
Background:
1.) Loaded to .020' OFF LANDS FOR A LLTO of 2.265"
2.) Powder Range 41.8, 42.0, 42.2, 42.4
3.) Starline SRP New but prepped brass
4.) CCI-BR2 primers
5.) Temps were 55 deg and sunny w/little wind

Shot 2 foulers to warm the barrel and proceeded to shoot the 3 shot groups.

Group 1   41.8 grs , velocity 2609, ES 32, SD 16.3, Group ctc  .522"
Group 2   42.0 grs,  velocity 2639,  ES 16, SD 8.5,  Group ctc  1.501"
Group 3   42.2 grs,   velocity 2661, ES  21,  SD 11.1,  Group ctc  .963"
Group 4   42.4 grs,  velocity 2677,  ES  21,  SD  10.7,  Group ctc  1.880"


As you all can see no flat spots in the average velocity readings.  Worst statistical readings on the best group size wise. 


Here is where I need the help.  This gun will shoot the Hornady Whitetail (which uses same bullet) ammo pretty well with an ES in the teens and groups around .75" and maybe less.  My barrel get an avg velocity of 2726 fps with that factory ammo.  My loads CBTO was 2.265" and Hornady's factory CBTO is 2.164".   Should I pick the 42.0 grain load and start adjusting seating depth since It has best statistical data and mess with seating, where I should obviously gain a ton of velocity by seating shorter?

Re: Saturdays Disappointing OCW Resukts

Reply #1
I’d try agian at the seating depth of the factory loads or do a seating depth test

Re: Saturdays Disappointing OCW Resukts

Reply #2
I don't shoot many 130s but I would be looking for more fps with that weight bullet. I'm pretty sure I used to run 43-43.5 grains with 130s and run high 2800 fps.

I would keep working up in powder obviously watching closely for pressure signs. This is where a 10-15 shot chrono ladder would get you in a node pretty quick without using up a bunch of components.

Your longer base to ogive should allow you to at least get beyond the factory ammo fps and find a velocity flat spot. I'd stick to the .020 off and keep working up in .2 grain increments.

42.8 grains @ 2700fps is max load with H4350 but that seems pretty light,  other powders will get you up to 2900 within book max. Just work up and watch for pressure signs.
Dave

Re: Saturdays Disappointing OCW Resukts

Reply #3
I’d try agian at the seating depth of the factory loads or do a seating depth test

I plan to focus on shooting a good group with the factories.  If it is close to 1/2 moa I will load to that length and try to adjust powder to match that velocity.  As I have only shot 4 rounds of the factory and it amounted more to sight in than an effort at shooting a nice group.  If factory does not get me near a 1/2" group, I will probably pick a 42.0 grain charge as many claim that to be at or near a known node value and push back seating depth at approx. .030" per 3 round group all the way back to the 2.164" factory length.  Pretty basically the Berger VLD test.


The further into the case I seat, the more velocity I should get.  I wish there was a formula factor somewhere that I could use to guestimate where I would approximate a fps velocity increase for every .030" or so I seat deeper into the case.

Re: Saturdays Disappointing OCW Resukts

Reply #4
I don't shoot many 130s but I would be looking for more fps with that weight bullet. I'm pretty sure I used to run 43-43.5 grains with 130s and run high 2800 fps.

I would keep working up in powder obviously watching closely for pressure signs. This is where a 10-15 shot chrono ladder would get you in a node pretty quick without using up a bunch of components.

Your longer base to ogive should allow you to at least get beyond the factory ammo fps and find a velocity flat spot. I'd stick to the .020 off and keep working up in .2 grain increments.

42.8 grains @ 2700fps is max load with H4350 but that seems pretty light,  other powders will get you up to 2900 within book max. Just work up and watch for pressure signs.

Also a good plan.  I knew when I shot my first round loaded at 41.8 and saw the velocity, I was not going to find what I wanted in this range trip.   I'm second guessing my previous post now.  With 41.8 a good group with bad numbers, and 42.0 big group indicating a scatter node between 41.8 and another sub moa group at 42.2, 1.5% above scatter node of 42.0 would be 42.6.  So I may just load up 3 each at varying seating depths of 42.6.  Or may try your suggestion and give the Saterlee method a shot.  I only have 85 of these bullets left and I don't plan on buying anymore, so I either need to find suitable load fast, or just give the bullets away and not waste powder or brass developing a load on them.

Re: Saturdays Disappointing OCW Resukts

Reply #5
mobenzowner, at .020 off the lands you have plenty of room to empirically determine velocity change per unit seating depth. Just load some at .030 and chrony.

That said, here's a sample from QuickLoad showing the default cartridge COL versus SAAMI maximum and minimum predictions for velocity.  Please note this is only for information purposes only for one specific combination of case, powder and bullet and isn't intended to suggest everything works this way.

 COL    FPS   
2.800   2749   QL default
2.825   2740   SAAMI max
2.700   2787   SAAMI min
Chris

Re: Saturdays Disappointing OCW Resukts

Reply #6
mobenzowner, at .020 off the lands you have plenty of room to empirically determine velocity change per unit seating depth. Just load some at .030 and chrony.

That said, here's a sample from QuickLoad showing the default cartridge COL versus SAAMI maximum and minimum predictions for velocity.  Please note this is only for information purposes only for one specific combination of case, powder and bullet and isn't intended to suggest everything works this way.

 COL    FPS   
2.800   2749   QL default
2.825   2740   SAAMI max
2.700   2787   SAAMI min


Thank you sir.  You have been huge help.

Re: Saturdays Disappointing OCW Resukts

Reply #7
.... I only have 85 of these bullets left and I don't plan on buying anymore, so I either need to find suitable load fast, or just give the bullets away and not waste powder or brass developing a load on them.

All the more reason in my opinion to load up 6 - 8 rounds at say 42.4, 42.6, 42.8, 43.0, 43.2 43.4, 43.6 and see where the node is. I would stay at .020 off because I would rather have my bullet there and adjust powder than try to manipulate pressure with seating depth.

When I do this there is always 2 weights that overlap. I load the weight between the two and fine tune seating depth. This is how I do load development anymore. For me it's the quickest route using the least amount of components to a sub .5 MOA load.  
Dave

Re: Saturdays Disappointing OCW Resukts

Reply #8
All the more reason in my opinion to load up 6 - 8 rounds at say 42.4, 42.6, 42.8, 43.0, 43.2 43.4, 43.6 and see where the node is. I would stay at .020 off because I would rather have my bullet there and adjust powder than try to manipulate pressure with seating depth.

When I do this there is always 2 weights that overlap. I load the weight between the two and fine tune seating depth. This is how I do load development anymore. For me it's the quickest route using the least amount of components to a sub .5 MOA load.  


These bullets are cannellured and the cannelure sticks up way above the case rim.  Always thought that didn't matter, but what's consensus on that ?

Re: Saturdays Disappointing OCW Resukts

Reply #9
These bullets are cannellured and the cannelure sticks up way above the case rim.  Always thought that didn't matter, but what's consensus on that ?

No experience with cannellured bullets but I believe the groove is there to crimp into. Most of us are not crimping and I wouldn't think it would matter.
Dave

Re: Saturdays Disappointing OCW Resukts

Reply #10
Just ignore it. My 270 did not care that I did not use the cannelured section.

Re: Saturdays Disappointing OCW Resukts

Reply #11
Mobenzowner where in SW Mo you at if your not to far from Fort Scott KS I’ve got a 1000yd range PM me if want stretch your 6.5’s legs a little after you get your load worked out.

Re: Saturdays Disappointing OCW Resukts

Reply #12
Mobenzowner where in SW Mo you at if your not to far from Fort Scott KS I’ve got a 1000yd range PM me if want stretch your 6.5’s legs a little after you get your load worked out.

Actually I am in SE Missouri.  Cape Girardeau to be exact.   Wish I could take you up on that offer!  Thanks for mentioning. 

Re: Saturdays Disappointing OCW Resukts

Reply #13
Oops reading in fundamental and I often fail miserably at it. Well offer still stands if you get weekend that looks like nice weather and you want to play at some longer ranges let me know. It’s a great deal of fun.

Re: Saturdays Disappointing OCW Resukts

Reply #14
Weather the last 2 weekends has kept me from getting out to shoot any.  Cant shoot this upcoming weekend either.  I will however post once I can.  If folks are going to be kind enough to give their advice a
then I think OP's should return the favor and post results.