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Topic: 6.5CM Newbie questions (Read 554 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: 6.5CM Newbie questions

Reply #15
Jd I don't think using hornady brass that had different factory bullets has anything to do with your problem. Variances in neck wall thickness is the culprit. Using a bushing die to get consistent neck tension you about have to turn the necks down to where their all the same thickness. Far as bolt being hard to close sounds like your not bumping the shoulder back enough yet. Do you use a headspace comparator to measure how much your pushing the shoulder back?. If not you need to. Measure a fired round from base to shoulder datum line the as your sizing the case keep measuring it till you push the shoulder back .002 from what a fired case measures. 

Have never used a headspace comparator. Was trying to do that by ordering LE Wilson case gauge, but on it's own it really doesn't help measure. Am waiting for Larry Willis headspace measuring gauge to be back in stock and I will order one. You can get a rough measurement with case gauge and using the end of calipers, but measurement is sorta hit or miss that way.

I'm definitely not real interested in neck turning if I can avoid it, wonder if I would be better off scrapping the neck bushing die in favor of a full length sizer w/o bushings ?

Re: 6.5CM Newbie questions

Reply #16
Full length sizing. Did not use expander as all necks were round, did have .289 bushing in to reduce neck size.Used a vld chamfer tool.
I have checked cbto and bullets loaded on this 50pc run were .060 off lands. (Was trying to duplicate factory ammo)
Brass trimmed to 1.910 before chamfer/debur, charging, and loading.
Bullets are Hornady 140 eld-m.


JD, I use the Hornady custom grade dies and have very good results (expander ball style)...it is my understanding the using the bushings to set your neck tension only works if you are turning your necks to make sure the brass is the same thickness all the way around. If your brass has differences in the wall thickness you will get varying results if you just use the bushing...

Re: 6.5CM Newbie questions

Reply #17
Screwing the die in till it touches the shell holder may or may not be necessary.  It's all about how much you push that shoulder back when setting your sizer die up. Too little and the bolt closes hard. Too much and you can have case head separation after a loading or too. Most of us want to bump that shoulder back .002 from what a fired case measures.
Grant

Re: 6.5CM Newbie questions

Reply #18
A hornady headspace comparator is cheap and will work just fine.
Grant

Re: 6.5CM Newbie questions

Reply #19
It's been a while since I have tried to size brass all in one operation so I'm not sure what sort of resistance I'd meet if I did. But, according to RCBS you should be able to remove the neck bushing and use the die to bump the shoulder without touching the neck. By breaking the process into two parts that may indicate whether it's the body/shoulder sizing that's causing the resistance versus neck sizing.

From what I've read bushing dies may require neck turning which I'm not set up to do, that's why I use the Lee collet die for necks.

Your second and third issues sound similar to what I experienced when I tried bushing dies. 

Yeah, evidence seems to be stacking up for scrapping neck bushing die. And the neck bushing die does seem to create a multiple sizing process. There are two different decapper stems, One with expander ball that I suspect would completely offset the bushing alltogether, and another decapper without the expander ball for use with neck bushing. Might be buying a simple sizing die, and based on Nitro's post above, I need to check if die is touching shellholder while I'm sizing.


Re: 6.5CM Newbie questions

Reply #21
Ive also been reloading around 21 years 308, 223, 222, 6.5x55, 22 hornet, 22-250, 12g, 300win mag, 25-06, and first thing i noticed after getting the creedmoor dies was the unusualy stiff pull required on my rock chucker handle compared to other calibres. I was also caught out by using the "instructions" with dies and had same problem with stiff bolt. Screwed die down more to a stiffer cam over and fixed problem :) maybe not yours but just saying might pay to check. I found the creedmoor handle pull and cam over feels stiffer than the others.

Re: 6.5CM Newbie questions

Reply #22
Ive also been reloading around 21 years 308, 223, 222, 6.5x55, 22 hornet, 22-250, 12g, 300win mag, 25-06, and first thing i noticed after getting the creedmoor dies was the unusualy stiff pull required on my rock chucker handle compared to other calibres. I was also caught out by using the "instructions" with dies and had same problem with stiff bolt. Screwed die down more to a stiffer cam over and fixed problem :) maybe not yours but just saying might pay to check. I found the creedmoor handle pull and cam over feels stiffer than the others.

Makes me wonder if it is the shape of the cartridge, wide body w/ smallish neck ?

Re: 6.5CM Newbie questions

Reply #23
And a BIG thanks to you all !!
Think I got something from everybodys' responses.

Re: 6.5CM Newbie questions

Reply #24
One other thing, and sorry if you already said you do this, I use One Shot for lube and find that giving the body die itself a squirt helps to smooth out the pull on the first few pieces. Once enough lube builds up the feel is very consistent but without that die squirt, the first few pull harder.

Good luck JD 500, you have a lot of things to check out, all part of the reloading fun factor :)
Chris

Re: 6.5CM Newbie questions

Reply #25
One other thing, and sorry if you already said you do this, I use One Shot for lube and find that giving the body die itself a squirt helps to smooth out the pull on the first few pieces. Once enough lube builds up the feel is very consistent but without that die squirt, the first few pull harder.

Good luck JD 500, you have a lot of things to check out, all part of the reloading fun factor :)

No Doubt ! I will give that lubing the die trick a try!
Well great news, MidwayUSA is going to take back the bushing dies and the bushings, I ordered a new non-bushing die set , and the headspace gauges for just about the exact same price !

Re: 6.5CM Newbie questions

Reply #26
jd I would like to suggest you trying a redding body die to size the body and bump the shoulder back.. 33 dollars I think... a lee collet neck sizer to size the necks... works great... you may hae to buy the lee ultimate die set to get one... not sure if you can buy it seperatly… any way... the ultimate die set you can get for around 45 dollars... and a forester micrometer seating die... around 80 dollars I think... these are the dies I use for most of the guns I load for... without turning necks the lee collet neck sizer will give you very consistent neck tension which is a must for loading really good ammo... you can go about it however ya want but this is my suggestion...
Grant

Re: 6.5CM Newbie questions

Reply #27
Since you asked... I've read several times that new brass should be fired with a light load the first time . Supposedly it "seasons"  the pocket and it will  lengthen the life of your brass because the pockets will be harder.  Grab the Hornady headspace gauge set  as suggested, and use it to measure your fired cases on the shoulder datum.  More likely than not your brass will need two firings before it  fully  expands to your chamber. 

I do a small bump  0.001  the first time around ( or collet neck size only) , and  make sure they chamber before loading.  Measure your 2x fired and you should be now bumping it back 0.002  for serious work or 0.003 for hunting loads. measuring with the hornady  headspace gauges. Same deal on your seating depth. Use the comparator  and modified case with your intended bullet to find the lands as a reference point.  Assuming your single feeding your now free to move  the bullet where it wants to be.

Re: 6.5CM Newbie questions

Reply #28
jd I would like to suggest you trying a redding body die to size the body and bump the shoulder back.. 33 dollars I think... a lee collet neck sizer to size the necks... works great... you may hae to buy the lee ultimate die set to get one... not sure if you can buy it seperatly… any way... the ultimate die set you can get for around 45 dollars... and a forester micrometer seating die... around 80 dollars I think... these are the dies I use for most of the guns I load for... without turning necks the lee collet neck sizer will give you very consistent neck tension which is a must for loading really good ammo... you can go about it however ya want but this is my suggestion...

Appreciate the suggestion.
Did place order for the Hornady headspace kit and a new die set earlier. Happens to be a redding set with a micrometer seating die.  Can get lee collet neck sizer from lee direct. Use lee factory crimp die on a couple calibers I load and like them, assume this neck die is similar?

Thanks
JD

Re: 6.5CM Newbie questions

Reply #29
Since you asked... I've read several times that new brass should be fired with a light load the first time . Supposedly it "seasons"  the pocket and it will  lengthen the life of your brass because the pockets will be harder.  Grab the Hornady headspace gauge set  as suggested, and use it to measure your fired cases on the shoulder datum.  More likely than not your brass will need two firings before it  fully  expands to your chamber. 

I do a small bump  0.001  the first time around ( or collet neck size only) , and  make sure they chamber before loading.  Measure your 2x fired and you should be now bumping it back 0.002  for serious work or 0.003 for hunting loads. measuring with the hornady  headspace gauges. Same deal on your seating depth. Use the comparator  and modified case with your intended bullet to find the lands as a reference point.  Assuming your single feeding your now free to move  the bullet where it wants to be.

Thanks , That was the original question wasn’t it.
I have been reading a handloading for precision shooting book which did suggest light even starting loads to fire form brass but I can’t remember a justification it may have simply been what the authors process was.  I’d prefer not to load light ammo, guessing at what might group. Unless there’s a worthwhile reason to

Thanks