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Messages - bikemutt
Will sorting powder kernels be the next new technique???
Blending, like a fine Canadian whisky. I predict Varg4350, VhitaTrailBoss, BlueReloder71, the possibilities are endless, if not disastrous
It will be offered in 6.5 CM according to press reports.
With the mounting political pressure on "assault rifles" I wonder if they are moving in this direction to stay relevant?
Not to mention the market being awash in semi-auto hardware.
Hope to see some reports soon, they do make nice rifles.
In other words, we have to start somewhere. Then we refine. Then we rebarrel
Seriously though, I know for a fact I have to apply myself to quality hand loading; running any experiment with different specimens is a fool's errand. If nothing else. it's a good place to start.
Still, I think most folks, myself included, conduct load-searching ladders inside of 200 yards, probably mostly at 100 yards.
I do pay attention to ES/SD even at 100-200 yards but I treat the numbers as "good to know". What Grant suggested here moved those numbers up a notch or two on my radar as far as importance goes; it's always good to learn new things.
Chris I think it is. Being out of the node causes erratic bullet behavior which in turn would cause erratic mv. I've never seen rounds in a scatter node give low es and sd numbers. Now maybe they can but not that I have seen. From what i can see is if your loading top notch rounds the closer you get to the center of a node the lower your sd and es numbers will be. But like usual i could be wrong.. lol
You are one of the Godfathers of reloading, being wrong isn't an option
It may be time for a thread on what's considered good ES/SD, somewhere between 0/0 and 99999/99999 lies the answer, lol.
dave 82 just my opinion but I think the 10 shot ladder test will show you where your node is and it will also show you where your lowest sd and es is... as you go from a scatter node to a good node your sd and es will get smaller... hence scatter node equals high sd and es … good node will have lower sd and es… find your node first from edge to edge then get centered up in it good and your sd and es numbers should be good... providing your loading quality rounds... and what I mean by that is your charge weights are really close to the same in each case and also consistent neck tension.. very important... if they feel different when seating the bullets your sd and es will reflect that difference... with the 143 eldx you can see you have a decent sd and es at 41.3... that's a knowen node for a 24 inch pipe... playing with seating depth will more than likely close that group up a little...and I think you will find a flat spot in mv in that same area when you go to doing 10 shot ladder testing... good luck man...your on the right track..
Gman, if I understand you right, your'e saying that being in a good node or not affects ES/SD? I know you qualified it with quality ammo where the rounds are as identical as possible with regards to neck tension, charge weights etc.
The reason I ask is because I have always figured ES/SD was the direct result of my ability (or inability) to make consistent ammo. I never figured a node was a causative factor of ES/SD outcomes.
Thanks for the input fellas. I agree that there are a lot of variables at play with yesterday’s testing. I will continue with barrel break in and run some velocity ladders to look for nodes. As mentioned, I will stick to the 143ELDX for now.
I have only ever done OCW and seating depth testing in the past, so velocity nodes are new(ish) to me. My question with regards to them is if I have such a high ES, wouldn’t that confound my velocity ladder testing to the point that it renders it useless? Does velocity stabilize with more shots fired (this barrel is at 50 rounds fired)?
Dave82, you ask a great question about putting faith in a velocity ladder which is accompanied by spotty extreme spreads.
Personally, I've had velocity ladders where ES and SD were so good that for a brief moment I thought I actually knew what I was doing, yet the ladder test left me totally confused because it presented no clear trend. Conversely I've run ladders with mediocre ES/SDs yet the trend was so obvious it was easy to find the nodes(s). Not trying to make the case that ES and SD doesn't matter, achieving consistent and low values is a good thing especially when stretching out the target distance.
I like to combine the analysis with target results, preferably in a horizontal manner, left to right.. There are some things the target tells you that may help to confirm or rule out what the velocity numbers are saying.
Hope that helps.
I guess a blind hog can find an acorn now and again
Know of several people that have been lucky in the Compass in 6.5 Creedmoor and I suppose I was blessed. It shot 1" 5 shot-groups out of the box with factory ammo which was such a pleasant feeling! I have only had 1 other rifle shoot good groups with the first reload tried and that was a Sako RoughTech; all of the other took quite some time to tweak the accuracy potential. My tweaking on this rifle was to get it from .70 to .50! What a terrible problem to have LOL!
I think it's just the way things work with value rifles, win some, lose some. I bought a Savage bolt rifle in .223 off gunbroker.com a few years back, put in a bid which I was certain would not win. Well, I did win, and still have that rifle. It's stupidly accurate, even with Black Hills remanufactured fodder. I can't wait to work up a load it really likes, lol.