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January 20, 2018 ...

Recent Posts

1
Reloading / Next upgrade?
Last post by MSS -
Last year I retired my CED chrony for a LabRadar.
This year I bought a Forster CoAx (inbound).
I currently use Forster BR and Redding comp dies,Lee Collet dies and an older Pace digital scale with the infrared powder dispenser.
I'm thinking next might be the autotrickler and possibly Whidden dies?  I'm on the fence with the Whidden dies after reading some reviews of quality issues coupled with the fact that lots of folks seem to think the run out on the Forster dies is really low.
Autotrickler or dies?
2
Reloading / Re: primers for 6.5 creedmoor ?
Last post by Nomadic -
Just to throw in another brand option...I use Seller & Bellot LRP primers in Norma Brass with RL16 Powder. I have had great luck with S&B LRP in my 6.5CM, SRP in my precision .223 Wylde AR15, Savage .223 bolt gun, and Colt 5.56 AR15, and SPP in both of my 9mm
3
AR Variants / Re: Cheapo non-adjustable gas block?
Last post by Apollo_Creed -
After wading through a lake of mud to post my target ... I tested out the Creedmoor Beast.
Good news:
1.  Tack driver - half inch groups at 50 yards with a lousy milspec trigger and my bad shooting.
2.  Got it zeroed in tight.
3.  Very mild recoil, and fairly quiet despite hairy muzzle brake. Helps that it weighs like 15 lbs.
Problems:
Major problems in feeding and locking up. Failure to strip rounds from mag. Weak extraction. I think I got two shots off in succession without a problem, the rest were single shots, second and third tries, stove-pipes, removing magazine, re-racking, etc. Bolt not holding open on last round, etc.  Thoughts: A lot of this sounds like under-gassed, but I doubt it. I suspect overgassing, excessive bolt speed, and the extractor is pulling over the rim. I think I see some evidence of that on the brass. So I'll wait for funds to get an adjustable gas block. I think I have a heavy buffer laying around here somewhere. ...

4
Optics, Sights, Mounts, Etc. / Re: Scope bubble
Last post by Crabo -
If you buy directly from Holland, it is $10 cheaper than midway.
5
Reloading / Re: My best group so far
Last post by bikemutt -
I've noticed a substantial POI shift with Magnetospeed if the bullet kisses the sensor :(
6
General Discussion / Re: MOA all DAY?
Last post by walkinhorseman -
....and here's is the full rant....for those that are interested.

This topic has always been a hot button subject for me. The first point that I will make is that Walt Berger goes off on a rant in their reloading manual about the "all day long" boys. That is a worthwhile read.
My testing is done at 100 yards (actually 114) to eliminate errors that I might make in wind calls.  I recently performed a box test at 100 yards on my Nightforce Comp where I shot 6 consecutive 5 shot groups. I waited months to get a day good enough to do that test. Between my schedule and mother nature, it took quite a while to get a quiet day to test. Those 6 consecutive 5-shot groups were 0.585 moa, 0.519 moa, 0.478 moa, 0.385 moa, 0.422 moa and 0.431 moaand average 0.47 MOA. Our 100 yard range is actually 114 yards so the values that I quoted are calculated by On-Target as MOA. Refer to the attached targets. The F-Class X-ring is 0.5 MOA.
I think that any shooter who believes MOA all day long is easily achievable needs to attend a regional or national IBS or NBRSA short range BR shoot. There you will witness the best shooters, with the best rifles shooting numerous relays through the course of the day as conditions vary. At the end of each relay, the targets are scored and hung for all to see. Although the aggregate scores are usually low, invariably, everybody gets caught or has one get away on them. Be aware that at these shoots, there is literally a sea of wind-flags.
I am pretty much on the same page as Rardoin and am skeptical of most claims that I hear on the net. The following explanation is the reason why.
I am retired and am fortunate enough to live just 6 miles from a gun club that has ranges to 600 yards, with pits and target carriers. I shoot mid-range F-Class in the club league and practice at 600 yards. ALL of my load development is done on the 100 yard range (actually 114) where there are a couple good cement top benches. The 100 is a flat range where I can set wind flags every 25 yards between the bench and the target. As much time as I spend there, I NEVER see any other shooters using wind flags, except our top F-TR shooter. Maybe they have magic bullets or some super sense for wind detection. I am not certain of that. I've been waiting for one of them to school me on how to make my bullets immune to the forces of nature.
When I test loads or shoot at 600 for pre-match zero checks and practice I watch the wind predictions on NOAA and look for optimum conditions. In the case of match prep, I look for the wind direction and intensity predicted for match day and try to catch a similar day just ahead of the match for 600 yard practice. On the 600 yard range, I know the key points to place my flags for the most influential winds. I am able to place my flags on the 600 so that they are either in my scope or easily seen through my non-shooting eye.  I see a lot of people shoot with me that never use flags.  Maybe they know something that I don't. What I do know is that my methods and skills are good enough to place me third in F-TR in the NE State match in 2016 and second in F-TR in 2017 shooting my 308. Our league has some very good shooters in both F-Open and F-TR and we typically have between 50 and 60 shooters at our state match. I have my NRA Master qualification and turn in some High Master scores but have never shot a 200. League scores are submitted to the NRA for the entire season which means that you can't get a higher qual for just a couple good match performances. I judge my skill by the quality of the shooters that I compete against. I've had matches where I shot 30 X's (more than the winner) and came in second by a point drop.
All of my shooting is done on paper. The only time that I use 3-shot statistics is for initial OCW and jump testing. My groups are evaluated using On-Target or the software that comes with the Bullseye Camera System for the 600 yard targets. When 5 shot and 10 shot groups are used a better statistical representation is acquired for making decisions about the load and zeros. Three shot groups can be misleading. Most good loads with 5 shot groups will display 3 shots within them that are bragging size however they are not the true statistical value of the precision. If 3-shot groups are your thing, shoot 10 consecutive 3-shot groups and take the average of those 30 CONSECUTIVE shots.
Our F-Class matches start at about 9 AM and end about 2 PM. You shoot three 20 record shot relays, score on other relays and go to the pits to pull targets. Conditions can change significantly from the shooters first relay to his third. That is "all day long". Our F-Open 284 shooters are usually only dropping a point or two on even the bad days. Their standings are being decided by X's most of the time. The F-TR shooters are typically 10 points behind the F-Open shooters. For those of you not familiar with F-Class, the 10-ring is 1 MOA and the X-Ring is ½ MOA.
Matches are scheduled and held on a specific date. Weather can't be ordered for the match so you shoot in what you are dealt by Mother Nature. That is another point that I want to make about claims of precision that are made. Where on this planet are all of the hot-shots finding perfect weather to support the "all day long" claims? I lived in Western Pennsylvania where I shot at three different ranges there, I lived in New Hampshire where I shot at the Nashua Fish and Game Club, I lived in Western Nebraska and now live in Eastern Nebraska. None of these locations provided ideal conditions much of the time. So, most of us are not independently wealthy, some of us are retired where our schedules are more open, but most of the shooters are gainfully employed where they can't get to a range when mother nature provides that perfect shooting condition for wind and mirage. Unless you have a tunnel to test in like Sierra's 300 yard, I am not going to put much stock in the claims that I read about "all day long" precision because I have too many shots down range during the F-Class matches to know better.
Fuj took a shot at F-TR shooters for our bipods. Not all of us have the wide stance type. Our top F-TR shooter shoots rifles built by GAP with McMillan A3 type stocks and uses a more conventional bipod with a rear bean bag, like the PRS shooters do. He preloads the rifle against the bipod and shoots some very high scores, often taking first place. Now, on the other side of this argument, I have witnessed quite a number of new shooters struggle with Harris bipods, hopping around on the deck like jack rabbits. I also see a lot of new shooters show up with AR's fitted with bipods and not return with them to shoot again.
If you think that holding an MOA, in real world conditions, for 20 record shots at 600 yards is easy, come and give it a try. The nice thing about F-Class is that in F-Open you just have to make the weight limit. Well, there's the under 35 caliber and no brakes or compensators so standing up to recoil for 60 shots kind of limits choices. There's a place for all the 6.5 CM Rugers and Savages to have a go. The PRS style rifles should be legal and competitive in F-Class as long as they don't have brakes or compensators. Run what you brung. We score the same for everybody.
So any of you "all day long" boys that want to shut me up can come to Eastern Nebraska Gun Club and shoot one of our F-Class matches. We'll order some special weather for you to show us how it's done. I'd probably even offer you a room.
7
General Discussion / Re: MOA all DAY?
Last post by walkinhorseman -
So, here's the rest of my groups. There is a restriction on the number/post.
8
General Discussion / Re: MOA all DAY?
Last post by walkinhorseman -
This topic has always been a hot button subject for me. The first point that I will make is that Walt Berger goes off on a rant in their reloading manual about the "all day long" boys. That is a worthwhile read.
My testing is done at 100 yards (actually 114) to eliminate errors that I might make in wind calls.  I recently performed a box test at 100 yards on my Nightforce Comp where I shot 6 consecutive 5 shot groups. I waited months to get a day good enough to do that test. Between my schedule and mother nature, it took quite a while to get a quiet day to test. Those 6 consecutive 5-shot groups were 0.585 moa, 0.519 moa, 0.478 moa, 0.385 moa, 0.422 moa and 0.431 moaand average 0.47 MOA. Our 100 yard range is actually 114 yards so the values that I quoted are calculated by On-Target as MOA. Refer to the attached targets. The F-Class X-ring is 0.5 MOA.
9
Reloading / Re: primers for 6.5 creedmoor ?
Last post by Rob01 -
Yes and as said in another primer thread should and actually do are two different things.
10
Reloading / Re: Primer Sizes
Last post by Rob01 -
Yup should and actually do are two different things.