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Topic: Better accuracy neck sizing or full length sizing (Read 1293 times) previous topic - next topic

Re: Better accuracy neck sizing or full length sizing

Reply #15
So the only thing is FL sizing requires neck turning.  Is this correct??

No, the only situation that absolutely requires necks to be turned is when running a tight necked chamber (a chamber that has a neck that has no/very tight clearance with a loaded round using unturned brass).  Otherwise necks are turned to uniform the wall thickness and/or adjust neck tension in a non bushing die.

Re: Better accuracy neck sizing or full length sizing

Reply #16
No, the only situation that absolutely requires necks to be turned is when running a tight necked chamber (a chamber that has a neck that has no/very tight clearance with a loaded round using unturned brass).  Otherwise necks are turned to uniform the wall thickness and/or adjust neck tension in a non bushing die.
Ok, I thought a bushing die pushed the uneven neck wall thickness into the neck I.D. unlike the collet die.

Re: Better accuracy neck sizing or full length sizing

Reply #17
I think it does leadhammer. But then their running a expander mandrel in the neck to uniform the I'd to the size they want if I'm not mistaken. Basically  doing the same thing Lee's collet die does just going about it different. I think...
Grant

Re: Better accuracy neck sizing or full length sizing

Reply #18
I think it does leadhammer. But then their running a expander mandrel in the neck to uniform the I'd to the size they want if I'm not mistaken. Basically  doing the same thing Lee's collet die does just going about it different. I think...
Ahhh ok that makes sense. Then without and expander you would need to neck turn. You would think running the expander would create run out problems, the same as a regular FL die. Plus you need to lube the cases??

Re: Better accuracy neck sizing or full length sizing

Reply #19
Your getting ahead of your self.  Neck turning is done as a last step for perfecting neck wall thickness.  When the case is drawn out, at the factory, the neck is the thinnest part and might have "bumps" or uneven circumference. Neck turning is ideally making the neck wall thickness the same all the way around, so when the round is fired and the case expands against the chamber it stays concentric all the way around, if not, the "bumps" or imperfections will hit the chamber first and cause "dents" into the case and thus push against the bullet in different places causing a drag in spots and not in others. You want the bullet to have a smooth release all the way around.
The neck bushing is only causing more or less neck tension to "grip" the bullet. You don't need lube inside the neck as a beginner. These guys are trying to ring out the very last .1 inch accuracy.  Work on the basics first, then go farther as you get better at loading.
The expander mandrel is expanding the neck and ideally pushing those imperfections away from the bullet for a smooth release.
A custom FL sizer is sizing the case to the pre-fired size and adjusting the neck tension as a neck bushing would do. Just doing it in one step.                                 
Hope this helps.

Re: Better accuracy neck sizing or full length sizing

Reply #20
Your getting ahead of your self.  Neck turning is done as a last step for perfecting neck wall thickness.  When the case is drawn out, at the factory, the neck is the thinnest part and might have "bumps" or uneven circumference. Neck turning is ideally making the neck wall thickness the same all the way around, so when the round is fired and the case expands against the chamber it stays concentric all the way around, if not, the "bumps" or imperfections will hit the chamber first and cause "dents" into the case and thus push against the bullet in different places causing a drag in spots and not in others. You want the bullet to have a smooth release all the way around.
The neck bushing is only causing more or less neck tension to "grip" the bullet. You don't need lube inside the neck as a beginner. These guys are trying to ring out the very last .1 inch accuracy.  Work on the basics first, then go farther as you get better at loading.
The expander mandrel is expanding the neck and ideally pushing those imperfections away from the bullet for a smooth release.
A custom FL sizer is sizing the case to the pre-fired size and adjusting the neck tension as a neck bushing would do. Just doing it in one step.                                 
Hope this helps.

Fantastic thanks. One question, the expander in the bushing die, when you bring the ram back down, the neck is not supported when it goes through, like a regular FL die?
Also meaning that with a Lee collet die, the "dents" will still exist and the necks should be turned as well.

Re: Better accuracy neck sizing or full length sizing

Reply #21
Your getting ahead of your self.  Neck turning is done as a last step for perfecting neck wall thickness.  When the case is drawn out, at the factory, the neck is the thinnest part and might have "bumps" or uneven circumference. Neck turning is ideally making the neck wall thickness the same all the way around, so when the round is fired and the case expands against the chamber it stays concentric all the way around, if not, the "bumps" or imperfections will hit the chamber first and cause "dents" into the case and thus push against the bullet in different places causing a drag in spots and not in others. You want the bullet to have a smooth release all the way around.
The neck bushing is only causing more or less neck tension to "grip" the bullet. You don't need lube inside the neck as a beginner. These guys are trying to ring out the very last .1 inch accuracy.  Work on the basics first, then go farther as you get better at loading.
The expander mandrel is expanding the neck and ideally pushing those imperfections away from the bullet for a smooth release.
A custom FL sizer is sizing the case to the pre-fired size and adjusting the neck tension as a neck bushing would do. Just doing it in one step.                                 
Hope this helps.

Very nicely stated!

Re: Better accuracy neck sizing or full length sizing

Reply #22
I'm thinking of trying something out using the Lee dies and am interested in any thoughts. I'm thinking of removing the expander and full length sizing, and then finishing by neck sizing with the mandrel die. I know it's an extra step, and being a relatively low volume shooter it doesn't matter to me. I'm mostly curious if there is a down side to this or just simply a waste of time. I guess I feel this method would give better runout without any unnecessary overworking of the brass, or am I missing something in this thought process?

Re: Better accuracy neck sizing or full length sizing

Reply #23
I'm thinking of trying something out using the Lee dies and am interested in any thoughts. I'm thinking of removing the expander and full length sizing, and then finishing by neck sizing with the mandrel die. I know it's an extra step, and being a relatively low volume shooter it doesn't matter to me. I'm mostly curious if there is a down side to this or just simply a waste of time. I guess I feel this method would give better runout without any unnecessary overworking of the brass, or am I missing something in this thought process?

It may improve runout.  I use that technique on some loads.  The main advantage for me is it gives more options on final neck sizing; with several bushing sizes and mandrel sizes I can finely adjust neck  tension.

 

Re: Better accuracy neck sizing or full length sizing

Reply #24
The Redding body die works well for that method.
Grant

Re: Better accuracy neck sizing or full length sizing

Reply #25
I'm thinking of trying something out using the Lee dies and am interested in any thoughts. I'm thinking of removing the expander and full length sizing, and then finishing by neck sizing with the mandrel die. I know it's an extra step, and being a relatively low volume shooter it doesn't matter to me. I'm mostly curious if there is a down side to this or just simply a waste of time. I guess I feel this method would give better runout without any unnecessary overworking of the brass, or am I missing something in this thought process?

I'm glad you asked this question.  I've wondered the same thing.  I'm also not a high volume shooter and don't look at my reloading hobby as a "how fast can I make the process" operation.  I have the Lee dies and the Forster Ultra Micrometer Seater die to venture into my 6.5 reloading.

Re: Better accuracy neck sizing or full length sizing

Reply #26
My current regiment is to deprime, run through a body die, clean, anneal, and finally through a bushing neck die.  I find that this provides the most consistent rounds from loading to loading.

Re: Better accuracy neck sizing or full length sizing

Reply #27
I've been looking at the Redding body die, and the Forster Micro adjust seating die as well. I think I'm going to give this a try and see how it goes. Thanks all, now back to lurking and learning.

Re: Better accuracy neck sizing or full length sizing

Reply #28
the redding body die and lee collet die is a good combination along with the forster micro seater....
Grant

Re: Better accuracy neck sizing or full length sizing

Reply #29
the redding body die and lee collet die is a good combination along with the forster micro seater....

Considering just sizing, I'm struggling to understand what breaking it into two steps, body and neck, accomplishes that a FL sizing die doesn't do, or can't do in one step?
 
Chris