Alliant Powder 6.5 Creedmoor Reloading Data

[Cold Trigger Finger]

I'm real.

To me it's kind of obvious, if the rifle is moving before the shot fires, I'll call it.  I don't need to see where the bullet hits.

Caffeine messes with my aim more than my trigger control, that's just a bad day shooting.

As much as I want that 5:00 am pick me up before I head out on the 2.5-3 hour trip to the 1,000 yard range, I resist.

One of these days I'm going to get a motorhome so I can drive the night before and wake up at the range.

 Life without coffee is like what I imagine the Great Appocolips will be.
 Shooting a small group is not reason enough for me to skip coffee. Besides, the pounding headache I would get would no doubt make my shooting even worse.

[flyer]

I'm not an addict, I can stop any time (as I drink a caffeinated beverage).

[DDRH65CM]

Finally was able to load up some RL16.
Rifle is AIAX-SA 24" 6.5CM
140gr ELD-M
Winchester LRP
1X Fires Hornady Brass (from 2 diff rifles)
FL bushing sized 0.288 neck (but I used carbide expander, so kinda ruins the 0.288 neck tension)
60-70°F
~2800ft Altitude
Don't have DA or Atmospheric Pressure.
A few ejector marks but nothing extreme.  Primers a little flattened.
Loaded to 2.800"

41.5gr
Stats - Average   2746.32
Stats - Highest   2764
Stats - Lowest   2736.66
Stats - Ext. Spread   27.34
Stats - Std. Dev   10.93

42.0gr
Stats - Average   2783.86
Stats - Highest   2814.1
Stats - Lowest   2764.66
Stats - Ext. Spread   49.43
Stats - Std. Dev   20.76

42.5gr
Stats - Average   2822.86
Stats - Highest   2851.51
Stats - Lowest   2803.86
Stats - Ext. Spread   47.64
Stats - Std. Dev   23.87

43.0gr
Stats - Average   2863.02
Stats - Highest   2869.15
Stats - Lowest   2855.79
Stats - Ext. Spread   13.36
Stats - Std. Dev   5.69

[DDRH65CM]

Was able to get out last Friday and test out the BR2 primers.

4X fired Norma (these were all fireformed and headspace measure consistently @ 1.5365, bumped to 1.5360)
CCI-BR2 primers, Alliant RL16

42.0
Stats - Average   2821.02
Stats - Highest   2841.07
Stats - Lowest   2809.89
Stats - Ext. Spread   31.18
Stats - Std. Dev   13.62
5-shots

42.2
Stats - Average   2835.97
Stats - Highest   2849.18
Stats - Lowest   2828.74
Stats - Ext. Spread   20.44
Stats - Std. Dev   7.73
5-shots

42.4
Stats - Average   2855.72
Stats - Highest   2864.88
Stats - Lowest   2846.76
Stats - Ext. Spread   18.11
Stats - Std. Dev   7.96
4-shots (recorded)

42.6
Stats - Average   2856.83
Stats - Highest   2871.09
Stats - Lowest   2845.85
Stats - Ext. Spread   25.23
Stats - Std. Dev   10.47
5-shots

42.8
Stats - Average   2866.12
Stats - Highest   2871.74
Stats - Lowest   2858.55
Stats - Ext. Spread   13.19
Stats - Std. Dev   6.81
3-shots

ES and SD were much more consistent, i'm sure the BR2's helped. With Norma brass and WLRP it was better than Hornady and WLRP, but Norma and BR2 combination seemed most consistent.

Next batch I'll check out 42.2-42.6gr. Hopefully my AMP annealer will ship soon (hopefully in by June). hope it'll help bring my ES/SD down with more consistent neck tension.

[Sierra49er]

I'm using RL17 with 39.2 gr on a Berger 130 gr Hunter.  The brass is Lapua and the primers are CCI Small Rifle.  This was the second trip to the range and am starting sorta low and will work up until the HMR 14 starts liking it.

Some folks have commented that RL16 seems to be not unstable, but some type of unexpected behavior at 41 +.  Have you noticed this?

[DDRH65CM]

I'm using RL17 with 39.2 gr on a Berger 130 gr Hunter.  The brass is Lapua and the primers are CCI Small Rifle.  This was the second trip to the range and am starting sorta low and will work up until the HMR 14 starts liking it.

Some folks have commented that RL16 seems to be not unstable, but some type of unexpected behavior at 41 +.  Have you noticed this?

'stable' or 'unstsable'

If you're referring to the previous poster about RL16 and he had pressure sign/instability issues...i haven't found any issues. 

started @ 41.5-43.0 grains in 0.5 grain increments, and only a few cases had ejector marks,  no cratering with WLRP.  But somewhat flattened primers, nothing to extreme.

with the Norma brass and BR2 primers, i started to get very slight cratering @ 42.8gr.  Some ejector marks, primers do not looked overly flattened.  possibly lot to lot variance. 

[lofty]

Has anyone tried RL19? I have a couple of pounds that were given to me, and I noticed near the bottom of the Alliant loads there was one for 140gn Speers. I'm using Berger 140 VLD target bullets and thought I'd give the RL19 a run.
JD

[DHuffman]

'stable' or 'unstsable'

If you're referring to the previous poster about RL16 and he had pressure sign/instability issues...i haven't found any issues. 

started @ 41.5-43.0 grains in 0.5 grain increments, and only a few cases had ejector marks,  no cratering with WLRP.  But somewhat flattened primers, nothing to extreme.

with the Norma brass and BR2 primers, i started to get very slight cratering @ 42.8gr.  Some ejector marks, primers do not looked overly flattened.  possibly lot to lot variance. 

You keep tossing that "few ejector marks, nothing extreme" in there. I'm sure you're an experienced reloader and I'm not trying to scold you so I'll just throw this out there.
 
I've always operated under the "if you're seeing pressure signs, you're already over pressure" rule.

I've ran some hot loads myself but if you're looking for a good stable centered in a wide node load a load that's leaving ejector marks is probably not it and is probably being more than a little rough on the brass.

My 2 cents worth!     

[DDRH65CM]

You keep tossing that "few ejector marks, nothing extreme" in there. I'm sure you're an experienced reloader and I'm not trying to scold you so I'll just throw this out there.
 
I've always operated under the "if you're seeing pressure signs, you're already over pressure" rule.

I've ran some hot loads myself but if you're looking for a good stable centered in a wide node load a load that's leaving ejector marks is probably not it and is probably being more than a little rough on the brass.

My 2 cents worth!     

Not experienced but I agree with you. The 1st batch was with Hornady Brass, and who knows how inconsistent case volume is and the ejector marks were at 42.8gr and 43gr.

When I switched to the Norma Brass, i actually got one casing that had ejector mark @ 42.8gr.

Apologize haven't updated this, but was finally able to go out this recent Sunday to get more data.

This time I used virgin Norma and came down to 42.6gr with NO ejector marks on any brass. Warm day, ~85-90F. Warmer than my last two sessions (roughly 70F).

So like you mentioned, I did lower powder charge due to the pressure signs.

Groups attached @ 100 yards 10-shot string and had the jitters that day.  Then was able to get steady the two middle groups.  ES/SD we're worse...could be any variable.  Virgin brass? Powder left in hopper through the last few hot weeks in the garage? I dunno.

Any more feedback would be great!

[DHuffman]

Nice groups!

 Again I wasn't scolding you just giving my opinion on the load. I've run them as hot as anyone here and get the same advice from others as well. For me it's an easy trap to fall into, a little more powder for a little more speed. In the end I usually end up backing up to where it shot best.

[DHuffman]

/quote]

I haven't read your whole thread so if I suggest something you're already doing that's why.

If you're really serious about getting in the middle of the widest most stable node you need to quit worrying about es & sd and put the chronograph away. The target will tell the story.

First thing I would do is a thorough seating depth test on that 42.6 load to find the center of the seating depth node. If you start at .005 off and move away .003 at a time out to .030 off you should be able to see where 3 or 4 groups tighten up and be able to identify the center of the seating depth node.

Then I would load up 3 rounds each  at that seating depth .1 grains apart from 42.0 to 42.7 and find the center of the powder node.

This can all be done at 100 yards but the farther distance you shoot the easier it will be to read the results and the more accurate the load can be tuned. Obviously you need to be able to shoot at that distance to get reliable information. The powder node can be .3 - .5 wide at 100 but will shrink the farther out you go. It's .1 wide at 1000 on my 6 BRA, .1 off either way will go from .4 to .8 MOA

Get a good white target set up at whatever distance you choose, the bigger the better so it doesn't get cluttered up. Even just moving out to 200 yards really makes things easier to read. Then when you get to punching tiny holes at 200 move out to 400 - 600 and tune again then get out the chrono so you can plug your speed into an app for dope and jump out to 1000 and check your tune there.

By the time you get tuned at 600 the es & sd will have themselves sorted out and if they're not super low don't worry about it because it doesn't matter since you have a solid, stable middle of the node load. Your chrono is probably off.

That's how I do it. Anytime I don't do it close to that way I usually have to back up and do it over LOL.

[DHuffman]

The biggest thing is to get out and shoot the gun. A lot, it will tell you what it likes if you look & listen. The hardest part about tuning a load is getting past trying to make it shoot what some guy on the Internet says his shoots.

It took me thousands of rounds to get where I'm at as far as marksmanship or reloading and I'm far from an expert. Don't be afraid to shoot out a barrel or two honing your skills. They make more every day.

[Windsage]

Has anyone tried RL19? I have a couple of pounds that were given to me, and I noticed near the bottom of the Alliant loads there was one for 140gn Speers. I'm using Berger 140 VLD target bullets and thought I'd give the RL19 a run.
JD

I did some load work ups with it using 147 ELD and 142 SMK and it performed great.  The extra velocity was outstanding and the SD's were low.  It does not have the same temperature stability as other powders, and so I have not used it, but I still consider it from time to time just for the extra fps.

[DDRH65CM]

For anyone using Copper Bullets or Lead Free.  I'm in CA and well this state is turning into a shithole.  We're limited to "Lead Free" Bullets for hunting (Must be state approved).

I could not for the life of me get any monolithic copper bullets to group.  the only acception is my AR15, 16" mid-length Daniel Defense S2W bbl.  Running Remington Hog Hammer 62gr TSX shot well.

I've tried Hornady 6.5CM 120GMX SuperFormance Factory ammo, and although fast (~3000fps), it would group 1.5"-4".  Also tried Hornady Full Boar, 120GMX, same bullet, dunno what powder these factory loads run.  But it's a bit slower than the Superformance @ roughly ~2900fps.  Groups were also 1.5"-4".  Both will avg 2" 5 shot groups.

So i went to reloads and tried H4350 (Cuz i have a lot of it) with the Barnes 127 LRX.  Velocity @ 42gr is 2725fps avg. Groups were 1"-2", much better than the factory loads. 

Finally i decided to try RL16.  from 42.0-42.6gr in 0.2gr increments.  groups were much better. and consistently <1" @ 100yds.  Best load was @ 42.4gr RL16 @ 2820fps avg.  I may try some higher nodes.


Reloder 16
42.4gr
127 LRX
WRLP-5rnds, BR2-5rnds
Norma 4XF brass
COAL - 2.730"
BTO -  2.142"
OTL - 0.120" (long jump)
80*F
DA - 4500ft
Stats - Average   2820.39
Stats - Highest   2829.58
Stats - Lowest   2807.64
Stats - Ext. Spread   21.94
Stats - Std. Dev   7.23
   
Shot ID   V0
1   2814
2   2825
3   2829
4   2808
5   2816
6   2826
7   2823
8   2814
9   2830
10   2820

[KTexas]

For you guys that like RL16, I have 8# of the premium version with Norma URP for sale in the classified section. This powder came to me directly from Western Powder Co, the US distributor, so it's a fresh as any on any dealers shelf.

I haven't bit the bullet on a 6.5 CM as yet. My shooting partner may beat me to it, so I requested it as sort of a contingency powder after doing some evaluation of what I could find on the net. I could have requested AA 4350 or Ramshot hunter, but I decided on URP from the info I could gather. I have not ruled out other 6.5mms yet. The CZ 550 had a twist of 1 in 8.66". Now they list the 557 in the Swede and the CM. Haven't had any luck contacting them to see if they retained the same twist. My plan is for hunting and informal target shooting with 130 gr bullets as heavy as I'll need, while if I get the urge to make some whitetail sizzlers I think the 100 gr. Partition might be interesting. Norma data is a bit different where cartridges at .243 WIN and bigger get magnum primers for the colder environment. But for whatever reason, some of their warmest data is for URP in the 6.5 x 55mm.

I can't say how long it will stay in the classified section. Obviously, if I happen to add a 6.5 CM, or if my SP does before it sells, it will be removed. At $200 picked up here, that's $25/lb. Shipped it will be $230 to cover shipping and Haz-Mat.