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Topic: Tract Optics? Also reticle choices, learning Mil-Mil, etc. (Read 286 times) previous topic - next topic

Tract Optics? Also reticle choices, learning Mil-Mil, etc.

I was looking at YouTube and saw a review of a Tract Optics Toric 30mm 4-20x50 FFP MRAD scope.

It has a multi-turn zero stop and turrets similar to the Weaver Super Slam (and my Nitrex TR2).  The turrets can not rotate unless the cap is pulled out.  Once you've dialed to where you need to be, pop the caps back down and the setting will remain the same unless the cap gets pulled out and twisted.

I really like the turrets on my Nitrex TR2 so the Toric 30mm intrigues me if only for the turrets and zero stop.  I used their website chat and asked if their multi-turn zero stop is what it sounds like, they said it does not limit the adjustment to one turn beyond the zero point.  Sounds great to me.

Now for the meat and potatoes, it's Japanese made but uses Schott high transmission glass and an ED lens.  The reviews I have seen say that the scopes track nearly perfectly.  It's FFP which I've never had.  The reticle is illuminated but it seems to be a fairly plain cross hair with various MRAD hashes for range estimation, no Christmas tree.

I've been thinking about getting a really nice scope for my Nucleus action but this one has a ton of features with a less than $1,200 asking price.  It's making me want to take a chance on it in ways that an Athlon Chronus and Vortex Razor HD do not.

Back to the reticle, this will be only my second Mil-Mil scope and I haven't used my first yet.

I want to learn how to range with Mils and how to figure wind hold off.

While I'm not going to wind up on the PRS circuit, I'm a bit intrigued by the Christmas tree reticles.

Memorization is not my strong suit unless I'm using the info very frequently (as in much more often than I shoot).  Is a Christmas tree reticles easy enough to learn and remember if you only shoot farther than 100 yards two or three times a year?

A Christmas tree reticle is not an option with the Tract scope.  I just want to make sure I don't need to hold out for one.

Re: Tract Optics? Also reticle choices, learning Mil-Mil, etc.

Reply #1
Never heard of that brand but Japan sourced scopes are usually pretty good. What makes me skeptical is something has to be given up to get to get to that price point and Japanese labor is not cheap it has ED glass and zero stop so who knows.

As far as the reticles, the horus 59 type is just too busy for my eyes and brain. I find it distracting.
Take a good look through one before you commit to a christmas tree reticle.


Re: Tract Optics? Also reticle choices, learning Mil-Mil, etc.

Reply #2
Can't comment on the scopes but the wife and I have two of the Tract Toric binoculars . Extremely  nice glass, no edge distortion, great color rendition.
We have used them on a few varmint hunts and they are awesome in low light at dusk and dawn. Don't know anyone with Swarovski binoculars to compare them against but they beat my buddies Vortex Razor HD.
They keep the prices lower by having no middleman to mark them up, you get them straight from the manufacturer.

Re: Tract Optics? Also reticle choices, learning Mil-Mil, etc.

Reply #3
I'll try to take a look.

Some Christmas trees don't seem so busy, like the Kahales but I still should take a look.

I have read some of those binocular reviews and they sound nice.

A while ago I bought some Vanguard (I think) 10x42 binoculars.  They were on sale, with rebate less than $200, ED glass lenses and I'm very impressed, almost zero fringing out to the edge of the field.  If Tract takes it up a notch from there, I think I'll be very pleased with the optical quality.

Re: Tract Optics? Also reticle choices, learning Mil-Mil, etc.

Reply #4
.....What makes me skeptical is something has to be given up to get to get to that price point.....
They only market/sell direct, so they're not giving up a major cut to chain stores.
I came across them a couple years ago at the NRA convention & bought a low end model at the show.
Liked it enough to get another one : Response 4-16X BDC


I use the Strelok-Pro ballistic app that has all Tract reticles & it takes the guess work out of drop info.
On hunting rifles, I don't twiddle the turrets, once zero'ed.
Here's what Strelok  does with a 308 MK319 130 gn at 2800 fps, 300 yard target, 10 mph crosswind, zero at 100 :
(all the non-black info has been added by the Strelok app, yellow dot is POI)

... rule #9 ...

Re: Tract Optics? Also reticle choices, learning Mil-Mil, etc.

Reply #5
I can see how a straight to customer business model can reduce the retail price but it seems to compete with the Chronus and Razor HD that cost at least 50% more, Night Force scopes that cost double and some European scopes that cost more than that.

It's hard to believe although I want to.

Re: Tract Optics? Also reticle choices, learning Mil-Mil, etc.

Reply #6
Xmas tree reticle is a great aid. I hold wind and in competition it’s also beneficial to hold over and under to comply w time management on certain stages. Any grid which helps makes those holds more accurate and don’t obstruct my field of view is a plus imo.

“Tracks nearly perfectly”? Hmmm
Yeah I know correction factor...
Or save sheckles and get a scope that does.
This ain’t horse shoes and hand grenades lol.
Precision Rifle doesn’t mean close at 1000+ yds.
I believe it comes down to what individuals  demand from their gear.

I use Milrad. It’s just a slightly coarser division of measurement to achieve the same end.
No better or worse than MOA.

RIP Chris Cornell

 

Re: Tract Optics? Also reticle choices, learning Mil-Mil, etc.

Reply #7
By nearly perfectly, I mean a level of error that is probably entirely masked by the performance of the gun/ammo (at 100 yards).

I suppose that someone could make a vernier style target to confirm tracking to the 0.01 MRAD or less but I haven't seen such a stringent test.

Re: Tract Optics? Also reticle choices, learning Mil-Mil, etc.

Reply #8
IBack to the reticle, this will be only my second Mil-Mil scope and I haven't used my first yet.

I want to learn how to range with Mils and how to figure wind hold off.

While I'm not going to wind up on the PRS circuit, I'm a bit intrigued by the Christmas tree reticles.

Memorization is not my strong suit unless I'm using the info very frequently (as in much more often than I shoot).  Is a Christmas tree reticles easy enough to learn and remember if you only shoot farther than 100 yards two or three times a year?

A Christmas tree reticle is not an option with the Tract scope.  I just want to make sure I don't need to hold out for one.

Don't know or have heard of the scope itself so can't comment. Your money to take a chance on a new brand.

Holds and ranging with a reticle comes down to braking the reticle down to at least .1 mil. Ranging requires practice to break the reticle down accurately to at least .1 mil and some reticles can go to .05 mils and that will make your range more accurate. If you want to do this a lot get a Mildot Master. It's an easy slide rule and makes it as easy as putting in your target size and mil call. Holds are simple as you are just holding whatever the data you have is. Your wind call is .4 mils then you just hold .4 mils to the center of the target you are wanting to hit. Very simple so don;t over think it. Just remember to hold into the wind as you are compensating for the push of the wind.

Same for hold overs and unders. Just hold the data you would dial on. I have held to 1000 yards from a 100 yard zero in matches. Just hold the number you need. You need 7.8 mils then hold over 7.8 mils. Hopefully the reticle has at least .5 mil marks between the full marks. Makes this much easier.

A Christmas tree reticle is just more marks for accurate holds. I don;t consider a Horus a Christmas Tree although it is technically. I just consider it a Horus. It has a lot of marks and it pretty busy. I am not a fan but I am a fan of more standard Christmas Tree reticles like the Vortex 2C and 7. With the extra marks it allows for both elevation and wind holds without having to hold out into empty space.

Also there is nothing to memorize. Can you count? Probably so you just count over to where you need to hold. Simple. Even if the scope doesn;t have numbers to tell you what mil it is you just have to count over or up or down. Just need to practice it.

Here is the Vortex 2C Christmas Tree reticle. You can see it's not overly cluttered but has good marks to use as holds.



Re: Tract Optics? Also reticle choices, learning Mil-Mil, etc.

Reply #9
Practice is my issue.

It would be great if I could take a week to shoot every day, figure things out and then shoot every weekend for a couple months to drill it in.

As it is, I infrequently shoot one day and only very incrementally make improvements because it takes me most of the day to get somewhere close to where I was last time.

If I had that week and a couple flavors of reticle to try, I think I could figure out my preference.

The fact that I have to drive three hours to shoot more than 100 yards is a big factor for why I don't practice enough...

It makes choosing difficult.

Re: Tract Optics? Also reticle choices, learning Mil-Mil, etc.

Reply #10
You can practice all that at 100 yards. You can dial on elevation and then hold over or under and same for wind.

For ranging targets just put out known sized targets, I use cardboard, at the known distance and practice getting accurate mil calls. You know the range is 100 yards so if you make a call of say 1.2 mils and it comes out to 90 yards then go back and look at the break down again and maybe on second look it's more like 1.1 and that comes to 100. That's practice and learning how to break down the reticle.

Here is the cardboard I use. I have used it from 100 to 400 yards but if you only have 100 then use it there and practice.



Re: Tract Optics? Also reticle choices, learning Mil-Mil, etc.

Reply #11
I'll have to give that a shot with my Leupold VX-R Patrol.

Re: Tract Optics? Also reticle choices, learning Mil-Mil, etc.

Reply #12
I think I'm leaning toward trying one of these scopes.

I was wanting to use a pair of American Rifle Company M10 rings but with the 30mm tube, I can't help but worry that I'll eventually need to upgrade to a scope with a 34mm tube and then my $180 rings will be unused or put on a gun that doesn't really deserve them.

I was thinking about using a set of Burris XTR Signature rings instead but same issue.

I went down a rabbit hole looking for a set of 34-30mm ring reducers thinking I could wait for a sale to order a set of 34mm low XTR Sig's, use reducers for the 30mm tube and then have 34mm rings if I upgrade.

I didn't go too deep but it seems like Badger makes the reducers but they are about $60.  Knights Armament makes delrin reducers for one of their scope mounts, don't know if they would sell separately.  MFI makes aluminum reducers that are on sale for $16, winner winner!  Looking further, they also had some sets of cosmetically blemished 34mm steel rings with their reducers for $28.

I decided to buy the rings with reducers because a spare set of $12 (blemished) 34mm rings is the worst outcome there.

A really good thing about this, the MFI stuff is US made and I just got an order confirmation back from them with a personalized reply.  It sounds like my order will be shipping out tomorrow.  It would have shipped today but Sunday...

Any way, my lean is enough to buy rings.  If I keep leaning I'll order the scope.

Re: Tract Optics? Also reticle choices, learning Mil-Mil, etc.

Reply #13
I got the rings today.

First impression: not bad for $12 rings.

As far as I can tell, the blemish is that one of the cross bolts got staked in crooked.

It is a fairly large bolt for a ring, it has two flats milled in it to fit in a rail slot.  If you cut it to see the cross section, it would look like a mushroom.  It rides in a round slot and has four stakes to keep it from rotating when tightened.

The one ring with the crooked bolt might marr a Picatinny rail or have trouble fitting, I'm not sure.

The description on the web site said 6 ounces each.  They are steel but I didn't believe it.

Now I believe it.  These things are HEAVY!

If I ever use them, I'll probably have to drill some strategic holes in them to reduce weight.

I didn't check them for alignment or anything but if they are straight, I have no doubt that these rings could handle more abuse than any scope you could put in them.  That's what steel does and weight is the side effect.  The only lightening features are some very small slots in the ring caps.

This reinforces why I love aluminum rings.  Any normal aluminum alloy (beside pure) is more than strong enough to do the job of a scope ring, it's the aluminum threads where things get screwed up.

Re: Tract Optics? Also reticle choices, learning Mil-Mil, etc.

Reply #14
I got my Tract Toric 30mm 4-20*50 FFP Mil-Mil scope.

First impression is very nice.

I'll try to do a subjective clarity and light gathering comparison soon.

I used a Memorial Day discount so I paid about $1,040 delivered.

I've heard this scope is based on the mechanicals of the Bushnell LRHS but with Schott glass and locking pop up turrets.  I'm not sure but the reticle illumination might be nicer and they might have higher QC standards, I'm not sure.  It would be interesting to compare the two side by side.

I think GAP is selling a pre-order Bushnell LRHSi 4.5-18*44 for $750 which seems to not have the pop up locking turrets, less magnification range, less aperture and a "rev limiter" zero stop.  The Toric zero stop is a multi-turn setup, I'm not sure if it is different.

Any way, I think the Toric has competitive pricing as long as it performs the way I expect it will.